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Confusion on the Davidic Tabernacle
Submitted by Craig “Lee” Dorsheimer
The current issue [July 2008] of Charisma Magazine contains an article by Mike Bickle, president and director of the International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, MO, titled The Tabernacle of David. This piece is essentially a word for word reprint of a 2000 article of the same name. The only difference is that the original added an introductory sentence referencing an article from the previous month. Here’s the original article from the Charisma archives:
http://charismamag.com/index.php/columns/265-passion-for-jesus/507-enjoyable-prayer
Compare the original to the current piece:
http://charismamag.com/index.php/charisma-channels/prayer/18744
Given that the deletion of this prefatory comment is an obvious revision, it is curious that some of the errors in this article as pointed out on The International House of Prayers’ “Affirmations and Denials” tab are still there. Is Mike Bickle aware that this article, which he corrects in part on his website, is uncorrected at Charisma? Is Charisma aware of Bickle’s correction?
The original article and its current version point to the fallacy upon which the whole teaching is based and IHOP’s 24 hour worship is practiced. The faulty premise comes from an incorrect exegesis of Acts 15:16-17 and an incorrect assumption about the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant. First, the Acts misinterpretation:
“I came across this secret when I was studying the tabernacle of David (see Acts 15:16-17), the perfect model of a 24-hour-a-day prayer and worship ministry. King David assigned musicians and singers, whom he had trained in the prophetic spirit (see 1 Chr. 25:1-3), to worship God continuously before the ark.”[1]
Here are the Acts 15:16-17 verses:
16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’ [NKJV]
Put in the context of the whole of Acts chapter 15 we see Paul, Barnabas and Peter explaining why the Gentiles did not need to conform to the Mosaic ritual of circumcision and to Mosaic Law. Verses 16 and 17 are James answer to the Judiazers using words from the prophet Amos. The ‘tabernacle’ which had ‘fallen down’ was the Davidic dynasty/lineage fulfilled in Jesus. In Jesus, Gentiles, not just Jews, would be saved. This passage speaks nothing about David’s make-shift Tabernacle housing the Ark of the Covenant [1 Chronicles 15:1 and 16:1]. Bickle’s error in the original article was clarified on the IHOP “Affirmations and Denials” page shown here:
http://www.ihop.org/Articles/1000050149/International_House_of/About_Us/Our_Beliefs/Affirmations_and_Denials.aspx
Following is the complete statement:
The Tabernacle of David
WE AFFIRM
the Holy Spirit is orchestrating a global worship and prayer movement that will operate in great authority (Luke 18:7–8; Matthew 21:13; Revelation 5:8, 8:3–5, 22:17; Isaiah 62:6–7; Joel 2:12–17 and 32). This prayer movement will operate in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David.
WE DENY the restoration of the tabernacle of David is the same as the end-time prayer movement.
Explanation: In the days of King David, he established a tabernacle that had singers and musicians who ministered to the Lord day and night. Today, the prayer movement is in the spirit of David’s Tabernacle. This means that the prayer movement will have some components of the Tabernacle of David, specifically pertaining to singers and musicians.
The promise of the restoration of the tabernacle of David refers to the governmental restoration of David’s international rule as part of the restoration of national Israel in the Millennial Kingdom.
WE DENY the restoration of the tabernacle of David is the same as the end-time prayer movement.
Explanation: In the days of King David, he established a tabernacle that had singers and musicians who ministered to the Lord day and night. Today, the prayer movement is in the spirit of David’s Tabernacle. This means that the prayer movement will have some components of the Tabernacle of David, specifically pertaining to singers and musicians.
The promise of the restoration of the tabernacle of David refers to the governmental restoration of David’s international rule as part of the restoration of national Israel in the Millennial Kingdom.
The context of Amos 9:11–12 is the governmental rule of Jesus over all the nations from Jerusalem.
In Acts 15:13–18, James referred to Amos 9:11 declaring that Gentiles should be accepted into the predominantly Jewish Body of Christ, without needing to convert to Judaism. The apostles understood that in the End Times, God would re-establish the Messianic kingdom over all the nations. God has just visited the Gentiles with salvation at Cornelius’ house (Acts 10). This was in agreement with Old Testament prophecy. James quoted Amos to prove that many Gentiles will be saved in context to the restoration of the Davidic dynastic reign. This restoration will of course include David’s heart for worship and prayer. Though Amos 9:11 is not prophesying primarily about 24/7 intercessory worship, it will be a foundational reality in the release of Jesus’ worldwide rule over the nations. The prophetic word given to Mike Bickle in May 1983 was that “God would release 24 hour-a-day prayer in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David.” In other words, it would involve prophetic singers and musicians. Worship and intercession is not in itself the actual restoration of David’s tabernacle![2]
The last three paragraphs above go about clarifying/correcting the Acts and Amos passages cited in the original article. For sake of comparison with the Acts verses and completeness, here are the Amos 9:11-12 verses which were paraphrased a bit by James in Acts:
11 “On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up it ruins,
And rebuild is as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the LORD who does this thing. [Amos 9:11-12 NKJV]
While Bickle corrects these verses [although verse 11 is also considered Messianic – as in Jesus’ first coming], he takes a bit of license with the last few sentences of the last paragraph. How does he know that ‘24/7 intercessory worship’ as exemplified in King David’s reign during the time he had the Ark in Jerusalem will be a ‘reality’ in Jesus’ millennial reign? Given that this whole Tabernacle of David prophecy comes from a ‘prophetic word’ from Bob Jones, how can anyone be sure based on Jones’ own assertion that New Testament prophecies will be about 2/3rds right at best? And, when Bickle states that Amos 9:11 does not ‘primarily’ speak about ‘24/7 intercessory worship’ he is again taking license as this verse says nothing about full time worship – or any kind of worship.
It’s interesting to note that this same faulty exegesis regarding Acts 15:16-17 is found quite a bit on the internet. Just do a web search for “tabernacle of david” and see how many sites come up with this same error.
Now, moving on to the unveiling of the Ark: Bickle asserts that David’s Tabernacle did not have a veil concealing the Ark of the Covenant from view.
“In David’s tabernacle there was no veil to keep the people from seeing the glory of God.”[3]
He goes on to explain how the Davidic worshipers were in effect a ‘human veil’ over the Ark. He cites a number of scripture references [1 Chronicles 6:31-33; 15:16-22; 23:4-6; 25:7] yet none specifically state that there was no covering in front of or over the Ark. Two of these passages actually conflict Bickle’s assertion especially the 6:31-32 verses:
31 These are the men David put in charge of the music in the house of the LORD after the ark came to rest there. 32 They ministered with music before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem. They performed their duties according to the regulations laid down for them. [1 Chronicles 6:31-32 NKJV emphasis mine]
This position of an unveiled Ark is not supported in scripture. This would be contrary to the example provided by Moses whose Tabernacle had an inner room termed the ‘Most Holy Place’ housing the Ark with a thick curtain/veil separating this room from the rest of the structure [Exodus 25 – 27]. Besides 1 Chronicles 6:31-32; 23:4, here are the only two Biblical passages directly referencing David’s make-shift Tabernacle dwelling itself:
1 David built houses for himself in the City of David; and he prepared a place for the ark of God, and pitched a tent for it. [1 Chronicles 15:1 / 2 Samuel 6:17 NKJV]
1 So they brought the ark of God, and set it in the midst of the tabernacle that David had erected for it. Then they offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before God. [1 Chronicles 16:1 NKJV]
[As an aside: it’s interesting to note that the Hebrew transliterated word for both ‘tent’ and ‘tabernacle’ in these Chronicles passages are both ‘‘ohel;’ whereas, the word for ‘tabernacle’ in Exodus 26:1, the Mosaic Tabernacle, is ‘mishkan’ in the Hebrew thereby illustrating the difference between the two. Additionally, the transliterated word for ‘tabernacle’ in the Amos verse is ‘cukkah.’ All three are different!]
In addition, even an unveiling of the Ark during transportation was apparently forbidden as per instructions Moses gave in Numbers 4:4-6:
4 “This is the service of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of meeting, relating to the most holy things: 5 When the camp prepares to journey, Aaron and his sons shall come, and they shall take down the covering veil and cover the ark of the Testimony with it. 6 Then they shall put on it a covering of badger skins, and spread over that a cloth entirely of blue; and they shall insert its poles. [NKJV]
Therefore, we cannot assume the Ark in the Davidic Tabernacle was somehow left open, unveiled for all to see. Since only the Levitical High Priest was allowed to enter the Most Holy Place/Holy of Holies once a year on the Day of Atonement, how could we assume the Ark was left in open view? In addition, in light of the fact that with Jesus’ atoning death on the cross the curtain of the temple was torn thereby signifying that we may now enter the Holy of Holies/Most Holy Place directly [Mark 15:38; Hebrews 9:8-10:12; 10:19-20], why would we assume that the Ark was ever previously in plain sight?
Furthermore – and most importantly – why would we want to resurrect an Old Testament pre-Messianic era practice? With Jesus’ finished work on the cross, we are now the temple with the Holy Spirit living inside of us.
Now, I’m not opposed to corporate prayer. I’m not opposed to 24/7 prayer. But, the ToD is promoting just another ritual. We have enough of those already.
Going back to the “Affirmations and Denials” page, the “WE AFFIRM” section uses a bit of scripture to support the ToD stance. However, the references do not support the assertion that the Holy Spirit is ‘orchestrating a global worship and prayer movement that will operate in great authority.’ Nor do they support anything about a ‘spirit’ of operating in the ToD.
There’s also some confusion – at least to this reader – with the wording in this section. Starting from the very top in the “WE AFFIRM” section it is clear Bickle is speaking of a prayer movement which will be in the ‘spirit’ of the Tabernacle of David. And, the restoration of the ToD is not the same as the end-time prayer movement according to the “WE DENY” section. Does this mean Bickle’s ToD is not an end-time prayer movement but a prayer movement not specifically related to end-times instead; or, does it mean that it’s not the same as the restoration of the Tabernacle of David which refers to the nation Israel’s reestablishment in the Millennial Kingdom? Looking at the last paragraph of the Charisma article, Bickle refers to the ToD as end-time worship.
Is there significance in identifying it as NOT an end-times prayer movement as opposed to simply a prayer movement?
The bottom line is there is no Biblical support for Bickle’s Tabernacle of David. The initial scriptural basis used for it in Acts 15 has been clarified and denied as being improper exegesis. But, what about the current piece in Charisma which is at odds with the “Affirmations and Denials” of the ToD on the IHOP site? Could the initial attempt to line up this practice to the Word of God have been instead a matter of eisegesis – looking for Biblical texts to support a ‘prophetic word’ of Bob Jones?
Further, the assertion that the Ark was unveiled for all to worship in front of is Biblically unsupportable as well. In fact, it’s easy to refute Biblically. So, where’s the justification for the ToD?
[1] Mike Bickle, “The Tabernacle of David,” Charisma Magazine July 2008 <http://charismamag.com/index.php/charisma-channels/prayer/18744
2 Mike Bickle, “The Tabernacle of David,” Affirmations and Denials, International House of Prayer , http://www.ihop.org/Articles/1000050149/International_House_of/About_Us/Our_Beliefs/Affirmations_and_Denials.aspx
3 Charisma Magazine
True or False?
1. It is easy to identify false teachers.
Matthew 7:15
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
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2. False teachers hate money.
Titus 1:11
They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach-and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
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3. The people will not want to listen to the false prophets.
Isaiah 30:9-10
These are rebellious people, deceitful children,children unwilling to listen to the Lord’s instruction.
They say to the seers “See no more visions!” and to the prophets “Give us no more visions of what is right!
Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.
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4. We have to sort the counterfeits working right along side of us.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’
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5. We are told that the false teachers will be destroyed.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.
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6. Those who teach false doctrine, we are to receive into our homes.
2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
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7. Many in the church will accept false teachings in rebellion of God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
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8. Stay close to those who are teaching false doctrine to correct them.
Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
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9. Many will seek teachings that will satisfy fleshy desires.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
~~~~
10. The gate to heaven is wide and inclusive.
Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
~~~~
11. We are warned that many will be deceived in the end-times.
Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
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12. There will be false teachers who will proclaim to be Christians.
Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
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13. We can reprove and rebuke the false teachers.
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage-with great patience and careful instruction.
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14. Error can be prevented by listening those who interpret dreams.
Matthew 22:29
Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
~~~
15. False teachers will be hard to find within our own churches.
Acts 20:30
Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
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16. As time goes on we should see increasing peace and strive for this at all costs.
Matthew 24:6-7
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
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17. False teachers will use flattery to deceive those who are easy targets.
Romans 16:18
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
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18. Only those professing truth will be able to perform great miracles to convince the people of their words.
Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible.
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19. False doctrine planted by false teachers will be someday be rooted up by God.
Matthew 15:13-14
He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
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20. Those teaching heresy will appear gentle as doves but will be ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:15
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
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21. The world will have to be “taken” and Christianized before Jesus Christ can return.
Luke 18:8
I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?
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22. New revelations take precedence over scripture.
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
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22. Everyone who publicly calls on the name of Jesus is saved.
Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
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23. Those who preach, heal, perform miracles, and cast out demons, have to be people of God.
Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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24. False teachers promise material blessings for those who give abundantly to their ministries.
2 Peter 2:3
In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
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25. There will be false prophets and teachers who will deny Christ.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.
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26. Bible study is a good way to protect yourself from false doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
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27. There are other true gospels besides the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ
Galations 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
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28. False healers will not be able to perform miracles.
Deuteronomy 13:1-2
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,”
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29. We are not allowed to judge the teachings of others.
Matthew 7:1
Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 7:3
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Matthew 7:4
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye
Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
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30. False teachers do not want to be unpopular and warn you about your backsliding.
Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
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31. Preaching good works, gives all the glory to man instead of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.
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32. Once you hear and understand the gospel you will never turn away from the truth.
Galations 1:6
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-
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33. Using seeker-friendly and worldly entertaining methods is a good way to bring people into the church.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.
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34. Those who say there are many ways to God are false teachers.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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35. It is okay for evangelists of the Word to have many worldly extravagant luxuries.
1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
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36. True teachers need to study many types of books to be well-rounded in their education.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
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37. Men who perform miracles, and promote their visions of angels must be empowered by God.
2 Corinthians 11:13
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:15
It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
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38. We are instructed to be grounded in the Word of God, so that we can immediately recognize a false teaching.
Ephesians 4:14
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
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39. False teachers say that Jesus Christ is just a myth.
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
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40. You can be like God.
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
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41. God is doing a new thing.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
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42. As time goes on there will those who will leave the faith by believing the doctrine of devils.
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
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43. We need to point out error to our brothers and sisters in Christ.
1Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
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44. Those claiming to speak for God, but do not, will not pay the consequences.
Deuteronomy 18:20
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.
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45. There is something we can do when we suspect a false spirit in a false prophets.
1 John 4: 1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
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46. Jesus told us to abide in His word so that we would know the truth.
John 8:31-32
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”“See, I have told you ahead of time.”
Matthew 24:25
“See, I have told you ahead of time.”
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46. T
FIRST-PERSON: Neither faith nor healing
Posted on Jul 11, 2008 | by William A. Dembski
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FORT WORTH, Texas (BP)–Todd Bentley’s healing ministry has gained national attention. His daily meetings for the past three months in Lakeland, Fla., have attracted hundreds of thousands from all over the world. The press has begun to question Bentley’s legitimacy — Is his financial accounting above board? Are miracles really happening? I want to raise some more personal concerns.
On July 3, my wife, three children and I attended Bentley’s “impartation service” in Denton, Texas, north of Dallas. Why? We have twin 7-year-old boys, one of whom is autistic (largely nonverbal, still not fully toilet trained, serious developmental delays). Friends urged that we attend the meeting for his miraculous healing.
Call us stubborn, but my wife and I are unimpressed with doctors who see our son’s condition as hopeless. We believe that God still heals and that His means of healing include conventional medicine, alternative medicine, prayer, fasting, love and, yes, miracles. In any case, we haven’t given up on our son’s recovery (we still remember the day when he was developmentally on track). So if God wanted to use Todd Bentley, we were open to it.
As faith healers go, Bentley is unconventional. Exhibiting black shirt, baggy jeans, tattoos and piercings, he prefers grunge to Gucci. But his appearance wasn’t a problem for my wife or me. God in the Bible used many unconventional people. The problem for us was the manipulation, hype and agenda that seemed to pervade the meeting.
It was a 130-mile drive for my family to get to the meeting. When we called the organizers, they urged us to get there by 3 p.m. even though the meeting didn’t start till 7 p.m. The venue (a basketball arena) seated 8,500 people, yet the organizers told us to expect 14,000 people to show up. So the only way to be sure of getting a seat was to get there early.
We therefore piled the kids into the minivan early afternoon, arriving around 4:30. At 6:30, after sitting for two hours, the arena was about three-quarters full. One of the organizers then announced that traffic was backed up for miles around Denton and that several thousand were trying to get into the meeting, most of whom would have to be turned away. This was sheer hype. A significant block of seats (at least 20 percent) were cordoned off and never used throughout the whole night. We could have arrived anytime and still gotten seats.
At 7, Keith Miller (the chief organizer, http://www.sfwm.org) started things off. After prompting the audience to perform ritualistic acts of worship (stand up, raise your hands, say after me …), he passed the baton to a young woman singer and her backup band. The sound system was terrible — sounds were loud and distorted. The music was repetitive in the extreme. In almost two hours of this “music ministry,” only a handful of songs were sung, and many of them seemed to consist of only one or two phrases.
Finally, around 9 p.m. Bentley began to speak. He devoted much of his message to the visions he has received and the miracles he claims have happened in his ministry. Then, almost as an afterthought, he spent a few minutes preaching from the Bible (John 5). In fact, he admitted that he was having us open the Bible simply so that it couldn’t be said that he didn’t preach from the Bible. So much for reverencing the Scriptures.
Nowhere in Bentley’s message did I see an emphasis on the love and compassion of God — that healing is an expression of God’s goodness and care for humanity. Rather, the emphasis throughout was on power — the power to heal and be healed.
Bentley told stories of remarkable healings. In fact, he claims that in his ministry 30 people have now been raised from the dead. Are these stories credible? A common pattern in his accounts of healing was an absence of specificity. Bentley claims that one man, unembalmed, had been dead for 48 hours and was in a coffin. When the family gathered around at a funeral home, the man knocked from inside the coffin to be let out.
But what are the specifics? Who was this man? What’s his name? Where’s the death certificate? And why not parade the man at Bentley’s meetings? If I am ever raised from the dead through anyone’s ministry, you can be sure I’ll put in a guest appearance. Bentley claims that he is having a team investigate healings performed under his ministry and will soon go public with the evidence. I look forward to seeing it.
After preaching, Bentley took the offering. During the offering he asked “How much anointing do you want to receive?” Thus he linked the blessing we should receive with the amount of money we gave.
After the offering, Bentley said a general prayer for mass healing. People who thought they were healed then came forward. But I saw no obvious or dramatic evidence of healing. After the general prayer for mass healing, Bentley indicated that he would pray for the severest cases.
At this point, a friend who was with us urged that she and my wife take our son with autism down for prayer (I stayed with our other son and daughter). Over an hour later my son with autism was still not able to get to the main floor for prayer. Ushers twice prevented that from happening. They noted that he was not in a wheelchair. Wheelchair cases clearly had priority — presumably they provided better opportunities for the cameras, which filmed everything. They also invoked the fire marshals, who, they claimed, prohibited too many people on the floor of the arena. But earlier in the service, during the worship time, they had packed the floor with people singing and whooping it up.
After midnight we were told that it would be an hour and a half before our son could get prayer. At that point, we got up and left. Yet the story doesn’t end there. When we got to the minivan, our other son remembered that he had left his Bible in the arena. When my wife went back to retrieve it, everybody, including Bentley, had suddenly cleared out. Staying an hour and a half would not have mattered.
Our son was refused prayer twice because he didn’t look the part, and he was told to wait still longer for a prayer that would never have been offered. And even those who looked the part seemed to look no better after Bentley’s prayer — the exodus from the arena of people bound in wheelchairs was poignant.
My son’s situation was not unique — a man with bone cancer and his wife traveled a long distance, were likewise refused prayer, and left in tears. People with needs were shortchanged. It seemed that power, prestige and money (in that order) were dominating motives behind the meeting. Minimal time was given to healing, though plenty was devoted to assaulting our senses with blaring insipid music and even to Bentley promoting and selling his own products (books and CDs).
Neither my wife nor I regret going. It was an education. Our kids are resilient. But the ride home raised a question. We found ourselves avoiding talking about the event until the children fell asleep. Then, as they drifted off in the early morning, we talked in hushed tones about how easily religion can be abused, in this case to exploit our family. What do we tell our children? I’m still working on that one.
–30–
William A. Dembski is research professor of philosophy at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
The above article was passed on to me by:
Bud Press from:
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/
Bud also send out this update about a video from ABC. Watch and you will see the actual documents presented to ABC from Fresh Fire Ministries, for proof of the healings. Only three were produced and they were measely indeed. What a sham.
This article is from:
Authentic Spirituality
Here is the blog address and you really should go this blog and read the comments.
http://freebelievers.com/blog-entry/authentic-spirituality
First of all, I’d like to say that I consider myself to be a “Charismatic Christian.” By that, I mean to say that I share an excitement about God that is not always visibly evident in some of the more traditional denominations. I also share the belief that the Holy Spirit is alive and moving as much today as in the New Testament. Most of my writings specifically address the Christian mindset from the perspective of Charismatic-Pentecostal because that is the background from which I come. I say that because I want to make clear that when I “call stuff out,” I am not critically standing on the outside looking in, but I am living very much on the inside. The fire with which I address certain subjects, however, does not come from my loyalty and love for a set of beliefs or a particular sect, but from a sincere love for individuals who many times are trampled to death by those beliefs.
With that in mind, I would like to address something that has bothered me all my life, but have never put into words until now. I believe that this little issue has taken its toll on thousands of genuine and honest God-seekers, and has left them feeling as though they are completely missing God. It’s time to expose one of the church’s greatest and best-kept secrets. Exposing this could set Charismatic Christianity back a thousand years. I’m about to blow a cover off this religion in a way I’ve never seen done before, so buckle your seatbelts.
My 8th grade science teacher pinned up one of those psychedelic mind-bending posters that supposedly had a picture within a picture that you could psychologically see inside, if you stared long enough and allowed your eyes to go out of focus. Those things never worked for me. I could stare for hours and I never saw anything but a bunch of squiggly lines and shapes. Supposedly this particular poster had moving dinosaurs in it. At least that’s what the first kid claimed to see as he let out a, “Wooooee, dude, I tooootally see it!” I got up close and looked till my head hurt but I still couldn’t see what he was talking about. Sure enough, one by one, people started to see the moving dinosaurs. Everyone was laughing and talking about it. There was energy and excitement as people coahed friends on how to look in just the right way to “experience” it with them. One by one you could hear people getting a “break-through” as they would finally se what everyone else was seeing. I felt ignorant, because all I saw were stupid, squiggly lines.
I quit trying about half-way through the year. I got to the point where I just ignored the poster when I came to class. Truthfully, I resented the fact that he put it up there in the first place. It was a science class. Why hang a poster with hidden dinosaurs? It didn’t make sense to me, and I found it to be a source of irritation every time another two or three people exclaimed, “I see it, I see it!!!!” I even considered lying to everyone at one point because it was only me and perhaps two other kids who were on the outs, and neither of them had a cool bone in their body.
By the end of the school year, it appeared that the majority of the school had experienced the dinosaurs and I still couldn’t see them. How embarrassing. My embarrassment was short-lived, however, because on the last day of school, the cocky old science teacher stood before the class and revealed to everyone that there were no dinosaurs in the picture. IT WAS A HOAX! He wanted to illustrate how peer pressure can easily sway others. It was amazing to see different people become angry and defensive and swear up and down that they saw moving dinosaurs. I believe those kids could have taken a lie-detector test and passed with flying colors. They fully believed that they saw dinosaurs moving!
Time and again, I have sat with sincere people who feel like they must be missing something in the God department. They tell me that they don’t understand why God hasn’t moved on them the way He has with their friends and Church mates. They are plagued with a nagging sense that they are always a few miles behind the rest of the group and regardless of how hard they try; they can’t seem to catch up. Every time there’s another testimony about God moving in someone’s life, they are reminded that they can’t hear His voice like everyone else and don’t feel the same spiritual ecstasy that their Christian counterparts continually describe and claim to have received.
Over and over, I hear people talking about “Peace that surpasses understanding” and “joy unspeakable,” as though it’s an orgasmic state of mind that truly spiritual people achieve after encountering God in a personal way. I can recall being in Bible college, watching my classmates weep and wail while lying on the floor during the worship service as though the Holy Spirit had completely taken control. They would talk about receiving a touch from God that instantly changed everything. Some couldn’t remain upright during the service because the ‘power of God was all over them.’ All the while, I felt like I did in my 8th grade class when I couldn’t see the moving dinosaurs. What am I missing here? Why doesn’t God do that to me during praise and worship? When am I going to receive a touch like that? How come I can’t hear His voice so easily? Why do I still struggle with depression? What’s wrong with me?
It began to unravel when a popular evangelist came to our Bible college. This guy was known for laying hands on people and having them “fall out” in the spirit. I was excited to receive this and nervous that I wouldn’t. After a short sermon on the power of God, this gentleman instructed us to line up side by side. He would then walk from person to person, laying hands on each one. Sure enough, they were dropping like flies. Everyone he touched turned to Jell-O and hit the floor under the power of God. I was praying a million miles a minute as he drew closer. Finally, I felt his hand on my forehead and I stood there waiting to be launched into the supernatural. I waited and waited but nothing happened. He kept praying for me but I wasn’t going down. Then he started saying things like, “Just receive it, brother,” and “Don’t hold back from God.” At that moment, I felt the eyes of everyone in the class upon me and I knew somehow it was my fault that I wasn’t receiving “the power of God.” Guess what I did. . . . I fell.
When we were in the parking lot and walking to our cars, my classmates were praising God and leaping for joy because of the incredible move of the Holy Spirit that they had just witnessed. People were talking about how awesome God was and how wonderful it was to receive a touch of His power, but I continued walking with my head down, saying, “I will never, ever do that again!” Someone asked me what it was I’d never do again and I said, “I fell on purpose.” To my amazement, every person there admitted that they had purposely fallen, as well.
I say all that to say this: For the better part of my ministry, I have attempted to take things that people say about God that are terrible and wrong and correct them. I have kept myself busy for the past ten years in an attempt to correct all the troubling misconceptions taught by the Church regarding the heart of God. Recently, however, I felt like I came to the conclusion of those bad things. I couldn’t find anything to address because I had pretty much covered it all. Then I felt the Lord strongly impress upon me that He would reveal that even all the good things said about Him are not true.
Our concept of “living in victory” has been embellished and exaggerated from generation to generation, to a point where we wouldn’t recognize the real thing if it jumped up and bit us on the nose. People talk about “freedom” as though it were a state of spiritual nirvana where nothing goes wrong and everything is blissfully perfect. I believe that in the Charismatic movement, there are thousands of people chasing dinosaurs in an effort to appear like they’re getting it when in fact, they have no real idea of what “IT” is.
I’m amazed when I hear testimonies of people in those Churches. It reminds me of “Reality Television.” The problem with “Reality Television” is that there is nothing real about it.
The editor reveals what he chooses by cutting and pasting bits and pieces. He omits certain parts and highlights others in an effort to create exactly what he’s looking for. This is what I see in modern-day Christian testimonies. They remind me of a 30-minute scripted sit-com where everything miraculously comes together in the end. The middle part that is raw and real is always mysteriously omitted so that the listener only sees the rags-to-riches part of what God did in a person’s life. “I once was lost, but now I’m found.” Nothing in the middle. That’s it. Overnight, everything changed and now there are no more struggles and strife in the Christian life, only continual happiness and fulfillment.
I think we do this because deep in our hearts we’re trying to sell Jesus to the public. We attempt to make Him out to be more than He is in an effort to spark interest. We present “life with Jesus” as though it’s a continuous mountain-top experience that comes with batteries included and a life-time guarantee. If this isn’t your personal experience with Him, something is wrong with your spirituality. Sadly, the result of this pattern of exaggeration is that people chase a carrot that is always just out of reach and then become depressed and disillusioned.
Let me be the first to say that the reason you can’t find the peace and joy and freedom that you’ve heard about is because it doesn’t exist. At least not in the way it’s been presented. The Christian life as advertised to you is a lie! The promises and claims that were made to you about Jesus were nothing but a list of sales tactics to close the deal. After all, who would reject eternal happiness and contentment? Who in their right mind would walk away from a Jesus who could make all their problems go away overnight? Who would say no to instantaneous freedom and victory? Especially when it’s as easy as 1, 2, 3. Rattle off a quick sinner’s prayer and you’re on your way to a life of constant adventure and roller-coaster spirituality.
I think there is something to be said for the way Jesus presented Himself 2000 years ago. He rode into the city on the back of an ass. Now that resonates with my life! I get this real and raw picture in my mind, “Life on an Ass,” and it rings true. Maybe it’s not a popular concept with the Christian world, but the fact is, life is humdrum. There are “up” days and there are “down.” There are times of purpose and times of purposelessness. There are extended times when there is clear direction and you know where you’re going and then there are times when you just sit and stare at the walls and go nowhere. Life with Jesus is not filled with a continuous vibration of exhilaration and adventure. Scripture never promised that to us.
I believe that until we are given permission to accept and embrace our humanity, we will be unable to possess values such as peace and contentment. Present-day Christianity seems to be about denying and even detesting our humanity and all in the Name of Jesus. We want nothing to do with out human-ness. It’s as though people present the Christian life as a rejection of the physical realm and an adoption of all that is spiritual. You’d think that some of us are embarrassed to have arms and legs because we think we’re supposed to float from here to there through the power of God. Anything physical or human is considered ugly by today’s Charismatic standards. The phrase, “In the flesh” has been coined in an effort to shame and silence anyone who might dare to be normal and live with both feet on the ground. If God was against living in the flesh, He wouldn’t have created flesh and inserted our spirits into it.
I believe that true spirituality is more physical than spiritual. In other words, it’s NORMAL. Today’s perception of true spirituality is equated with someone no one can relate to. I think it’s something else entirely. If a person is truly in touch with their spiritual side, they will connect and become relatable to everyone. They’ll embrace their flesh and be content with who they are while, at the same time, accepting it in others. Peace and contentment is not a point in life where you no longer experience pain and discomfort. It’s the point when you understand that you will experience pain and discomfort in this life and when you do, you know He is with you and nothing’s wrong. Many perceive any form of depression as evidence that God is not present or we are not receiving what we should from Him. I disagree. Being spiritual, in my opinion, is when an individual embraces every facet of their humanity with no apologies, knowing well that their shortcomings are not evidence of God’s absence but rather, evidence of life. True spirituality comes when we understand that in the midst of living, He will never leave us.
I am convinced that an authentic Christian life looks nothing like what most Charismatic churches promote. The picture they paint is not only unattainable but it’s impossible. I no longer believe the majority of the testimonies I hear. They’ve been edited to fit a story-line that’s proven to be a crowd-pleaser and a bestseller. Rarely does anyone merely provide an accurate account of their life because to do so would be flat-out boring. We don’t want a day-to-day Jesus; we want Super Jesus!
Additionally, I don’t believe all the hype that comes out of Florida. I’m telling you right now that all the people who profess to have experienced “the fire” in Florida are nothing but a bunch of self-conscious teens claiming to have seen the moving dinosaurs on a poster in science class. When asked to produce a shred of verifiable evidence of healings and miracles, the ring-leaders in Florida have come up empty-handed. Everything you are hearing about that “outpouring” is nothing but exaggerated rumors from people who desperately want to appear as if they got it too.
Matthew 24:24
“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.”
These rumors are spread by those who sincerely want to believe that something’s happening somewhere because when they look at their own “humdrum” life, they are filled with guilt and condemnation for not measuring up to the embellished testimonies and exagerated claimes they’ve grown up hearing in the Church.
Yes, I believe that God heals and yes, I believe the Holy Spirit is alive and well. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and I believe that God is actively speaking to His people. I consider myself to be Charismatic to the bone, but I don’t believe for one moment that these manifestations occur in the manner that we claim. The sooner we release the modern-day Christian fantasies about true spirituality and embrace normalcy, the better we’ll be.
You might be surprised to find that what you have been seeking; you already have.
The Baptism, or Fullness of the Spirit
Counterfeit
Counterfeit workings of evil spirits may accompany a true reception of the Fullness of the Holy Spirit, if the believer “lets go” his mind into “blankness,” and yields his body up passively to supernatural power. As a “blank mind” and “passive body” is contrary to the condition for use required by the Holy Spirit….The abstract result is great “manifestations” with little real fruit…a spirit of division from others, instead of unity.
True
An influx of the Spirit of God into the human spirit, which liberates the spirit from the soul, (Hebrews 4:12) so as to become a pliable organ or channel for the outflow of the Spirit through the believer, manifested in witness to Christ and in aggressive prayer service against the powers of darkness….Its special mark and result is known in power to witness for Christ, and in conviction of sin in others, and their turning to God.
There is but one reception of the Holy Spirit: with many succeeding experiences, developments, or new crises, resultant on fresh acts of faith, or apprehension of truth; various believers having varied degrees of the same filling of the Spirit, according to individual conditions. The enduement of power for service is often a definite experience in many lives.
****************
The Presence of God
Counterfeit
The counterfeit of the Presence of God is mainly felt upon the body, and by the physical senses, in conscious “fire,” “thrills,” etc. The counterfeit of the “Presence in the atmosphere is felt by the senses of the body, as “breath,” “wind,” etc., while the mind is passive or inactive. The person affected by this counterfeit “presence” will be moved almost automatically to actions he would not perform of his own will, and with all his faculties in operation. He may not even remember what he has done when under the “power” of this “presence,” just as a sleep-walker knows nothing of his actions when in that state….
True
Known in of by the human spirit, through the Holy Spirit. When He fills the atmosphere of a room the spirit of man is conscious of it, not his senses. The faculties of those present are alert and clear and they retain freedom of action. The spirit is made tender (Psalms 34:18), and the will pliable to the will of God. All the actions of a person moved by the true and pure Presence of God are in accord with highest ideal harmony and grace
*********************
Consciousness of God
Counterfeit
“Consciousness” of “God” in bodily sensations, which feed the “flesh” and overpower the true spirit-sense.
True
Felt in the spirit, and not by the physical senses.
*********************
Surrender to God
Counterfeit
Passive yielding of spirit, soul and body to supernatural power, to be moved automatically, in passive, blind obedience, apart from the use of volition of mind. Evil spirits desire “control” of a man, and his passive submission to them.
True
Of spirit, soul and body, is simple yielding or committal to Him of the whole man, to do His will and be at His service, God asks the full co-operation of the man in the intelligent use of all his faculties. (Romans 6:13)
************************
Waiting on God
Counterfeit
A “waiting” for the Spirit to come,” in hours of prayer, which brings those who “wait” into passivity, which at last reaches a point of “seance” conditions, followed by an influx of lying spirits in manifestations.
True
The Spirit in restful co-operation with the Holy Spirit, waiting on God’s time to act, and a waiting for Him to fulfill His promises. The true waiting upon God can be co-existent with the keenest activity of mind and service.
***********************
God Speaking
Counterfeit
Evil spirits speaking, either puffing up, accusing, condemning or confusing the person, so that he is bewildered or distracted and cannot exercise his reason or judgment….
True
Through His Word, by His Spirit, in the spirit and conscience of the man, illuminating the mind to understand the will of the Lord.
************************
Divine Guidance
Counterfeit
Satanic guidance by supernatural voices, visions, leadings, drawings, are all dependent upon the passivity of the mind and reason, and take place in the sense-realm as a counterfeit of the true in the spirit.
True
Through the spirit and the mind; i.e., “drawing” in spirit, light in the mind: spirit and mind brought into one accord in harmony with the principles of the Word of God. (Ephesians 1:17, Philippians 1:9-11)
*********************
Fire from God
Counterfeit
“Fire” caused by evil spirits is generally a glow in the body, which the believer thinks is a manifestation of “God” in “possession” of the body, but afterwards results in darkness, dullness and weakness with no reasonable cause; or else it continues deceiving the believer into counterfeit experiences.
True
It is a purifying through suffering or a consuming zeal in spirit, which deepens into white heat intensity to do will and work of God, which no trials or opposition can quench. Fire from God is spiritual not literal, and therefore falls upon the spirit, not the body.
*************************
Trusting God
Counterfeit
Trusting evil spirits comes about through trusting blindly some supernatural words, or revelations, supposed to be from God, which produces a forced “faith,” or faith beyond the believer’s true measure, the result being actions which lead into paths of trial never planned by God.
True
A true faith given of God in the spirit, having its origin in Him, without effort reckoning upon Him to fulfill His written Word. Co-existing with the full use of every faculty in intelligent action. “Faith is a fruit of the spirit and cannot be forced. (Galatians 5:22, 2 Corinthians 13)
***************************
Notes
Without exception the manifestations of the Holy Spirit is marked by (a) a Christ-like Spirit of love, (b) soberness of spirit vision, (c) keenness of vision, (d) deep humility of heart and meekness of spirit, with lion-courage against sin and Satan, and (e) clearness of the mental faculties with a “sound mind.”
Taken from War on the Saints by
Jessie Penn-Lewis
Ok I have to see for myself
Posted July 3, 2008 by Mike Kendall
from:
http://kingdomgathering.wordpress.com/
I have been hearing SO MUCH about Todd Bentley, reading SO MUCH about Todd Bentley, and watching SO MUCH YouTube on Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revivals that I had to see for myself what was going down in Lakeland, FL. I actually live about 45 minutes away from Lakeland, FL where Todd Bentley has set up his camp. Though I did not see him personally, I went just yesterday to Ignited Church that he is connected with. I visited a 10 am service that happens daily, and there was probably 1000 people there. Keep in mind that I am a worship leader/young adult pastor at a large non-denominational church, and consider myself a charismatic with a seat belt on. I do believe in the spiritual gifts, including tongues, prophecy (which I have), and miracles or healing. I prayed to God to let me have an open mind, and for His Holy Spirit to guide me in worship and also in discernment. As I entered the lobby/ cafe area I noticed something right away: No one greeted me and there were no signs of any crosses or anything that made me feel like I was at a Christian church. As I walked into the main worship area (that had no hint of a Christian cross anywhere) the music had just begun and was very hypnotic, building up with chants in tongues by the worship leader and his other vocalists. Right away I felt like I was at a Hindu, Buddhist, or new age meeting. It was creepy to say the least. It really reminded me of kundalini. Google kundalini and you might be shocked to see how it connects with the revivals that are happening.
Again I prayed to God to help me have an open mind, but I was very distracted by people speaking in tongues, and dancing around through the rows of seats. The music went on for about an hour, with the worship leader laughing and jerking uncontrollably, and speaking in tongues between singing and playing piano. A man then came on stage to introduce a prophetess that was going to bring a message from God, a prophecy that she had been given for the church. She began by speaking in tongues, and calling down the glory of God into the room. By this time the congregation had been worked into a frenzy from an hour of hypnotic music and tongues, and was crying out and shaking, and laughing, and crying, and screaming, and dancing, it was all going nuts at once.
Again I tried to pray and ask God to help me have an open mind and discernment. It was tough to hear God, to feel God through all of the chaos…but then it happened. God reminded me of what Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 14
Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues
1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. 20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
”Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.
22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
Orderly Worship
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
Once God finally spoke to me I left that “church” building as quickly as possible. Again let me say that I believe in tongues, prophecy, healings, when it is done orderly as the BIBLE instructs. I am weary of ANYONE that can call on healing, call on God when they want to, in an instant. Though I did not see Todd Bentley at Ignited Church, I saw enough. What I did see was a lack of a cross, a communion table, a Bible (although some people had one, they were not in leadership), and Biblical teaching or preaching. What I saw is exactly what Paul was writing against to the church in Corinth.
In Todd Bentley’s initiation “ordination” ceremony last week one George
Banov spoke providing Bentley a ‘prophetic word.’ I must say that
initially, at least, he was a welcome relief following the demonic,
frenetic, wild head shakin’ thang of Stacey Campbell. Banov comes in at
6:00 minutes:
A quick internet search could not produce much info on Banov; but, he’s
obviously of the same heretical Latter Rain ‘stream’ as the others on stage.
The reason I wish to call attention to this is the fact that in his ‘word’
Banov uses two Messianic prophetic scriptures and claims God told him these
were for Bentley! Here’s the transcription:
“Todd on behalf of the Eastern European nations and former Communist
Countries, we want to tell you that we acknowledge and honor what’s upon
you. And, we give you the keys for Eastern Europe — especially the poor,
the rejected, the gypsies.
“And The Lord says that because you’ve loved his personal presence there are
two anointings that are released on His presence and I just want to release
those two anointings on you from the LORD. By the way, the Lord says ‘you
are well pleasing son.’ The Father, Abba, says that to you personally. The
first anointing is the anointing of the pleasure of the LORD. [emphasis
mine]
“’Surely He has borne our grief, sickness and weakness and carried our
sorrow and the pain and the punishment of us all. He was considered
stricken, smitten and afflicted by God; but, He was bruised for our
transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities and chastisement
that brought our peace came upon him and by His stripes we were healed and
made whole.’ [Isaiah 53:4-5] And, yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him
and in His presence there is fullness of joy and pleasure for evermore.
[This is apparently a paraphrase of more than one scripture with another.]
And, God’s releasing his pleasure of what He did to Jesus upon you Todd.
“And, the second anointing that he wants to release upon you is in Psalm 45
but it’s also in Hebrews chapter one verse nine. It says, ‘Because you have
loved righteousness and you have delighted in integrity and virtue and
uprightness in heart and thought and action and you have hated injustice and
iniquity; therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of exultant
joy and gladness above and beyond your companions.’ We bless you.”
Not only does he quote two Messianic scriptures and applies these to
Bentley, he even goes so far as to claim that the Lord referred to Todd as a
‘well pleasing son’ thus putting Bentley on par with Jesus! [Matthew 3:17;
Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22] Does this not show this group to be promoting
Manifest Sons of God doctrine – part of the heresy of the Latter Rain
teachings? And, no one batted an eyelash on stage or in the audience. In
fact, they clapped and cheered.
I wish to point out that there is only one true anointing – the anointing of
the Holy Spirit upon true believers who accept Jesus Christ as their
personal savior.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the
truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but
because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the
liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the
antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has
the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it
does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what
he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you
astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you,
and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you
about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it
has taught you, remain in him. [1 John 2:20-27 NIV]
To promote that we can attain Christlikeness this side of glory is
tantamount to denying Jesus Christ’s exclusive Divinity as the One and only
Son of God. As the Apostle John points out above, this is the spirit of
antichrist.
submitted by Craig “Lee” Dorsheimer
Justin Peters was at the revival and in a wheelchair himself. Hear his account of the healings at this so-called revival, and about the people who were walking in the “sauce”.
Part One
Part Two
A man does just does not have enough faith to walk from his wheelchair. Justin also speaks about the importance of music at these gatherings and the key role it plays on the audience.
Justin who has cerebral palsy, praises God for His providence of removing him from the WOF movement, and thanks God for the gift of his disease which keeps him dependant on the Lord. What an amazing person…. this Justin Peters. Praise God for the burden he carries for the deceptions we are seeing today and for his courage to tell us about it.
Experiencing God – Part 4- Anton Bosch
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit” (1Cor 2:9,10). The things of God cannot be seen with natural eyes, heard through natural ears or perceived through natural emotions because God is a Spirit and spiritual things can only be perceived by that which is spiritual.
In the same way as a man born physically deaf cannot understand the glory of music and a person born blind cannot begin to partake of the visual beauty of God’s creation, so spiritual things cannot be perceived through the natural senses and emotions. The only way you can receive and be affected by a glorious piece of music is by hearing it. You cannot hear music with your tongue or nose and you cannot “experience” God with natural senses. Thus “the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1Cor 2:14). The natural man is the man who operates in the realm of the carnal, fleshly or soulish and in that realm, he will not encounter God. Thus the first requirement to meet with God is that man needs to move beyond the natural to the spiritual. This does not only require that he be born-again, but that he be willing to meet God on His terms.
The man who is governed by fleshly and carnal desires will not be able to meet with God as his carnality will blind him to spiritual matters. Thus the church of Laodicea was pronounced “blind” because of their worldliness (Rev 3:17); the brother filled with hatred is in darkness (1John 2:11) and the person who is not diligently pursuing Christlikeness is shortsighted and blind (2Pet 1:5-9). There have been many very wise, sensitive and perceptive people on this earth who never met God simply because they could not or would not go beyond their human faculties.
As much as God cannot be “seen” by the natural man so He can also not be revealed by natural means. You can put on the most magnificent audio and visual display, throw in some smells, vibrate the building so you can feel the motion and then dish out some snacks to taste and thus assault every one of the five natural senses but none of this can, or will, give you an “experience” of God. This is true simply because God is a Spirit and spirit cannot be heard, seen, smelt, touched or tasted. The millions of dollars that churches spend on appealing to the natural senses can not and never will give people an experience of God. People have experiences all right, but it is not God! In the context of the first two chapters of Corinthians, Paul also includes excellent oratory, human wisdom and miracles as some of the things that are not able to cross-over from that which is natural to that which is spiritual.
On the other hand there are many that are propagating many mystical ways of accessing God. These include chants, meditation, mantras, labyrinths etc. Most of these methods have existed in the church for a long time but are also very much part of Eastern religions. These are simply different ways of stirring the soul within man and also do not go beyond the natural, except in those cases where demons hijack the process.
How then do I get to meet with God?. First we have to understand that we cannot meet Him through natural means. Then we need to realize that we cannot work ourselves into a spiritual state or earn the right to meet with Him. We have access into His presence through a new and living way. That’s right – no more sacrifices, chants, endless singing, ear-splitting decibels or trying to earn the right. We have access through three things: His shed Blood, His broken Body and His high priestly ministry (Heb 10:19-21). It has all been done for us.
Don’t let people deceive you by promises that they will allow you to experience God, usher you into His presence, bring the glory of God down etc etc. We have access. It has all been done by Jesus. If we are born again, we have every right to enter directly into the holiest of all. It is complete and anything added to this will simply drag you back into the Old Testament Laws and rituals. Why then do so many promote those things? Because it makes you dependant on them to “experience God” and that is how they make their money. We need none of those things. Jesus did it all at Calvary. The way is open. Anything else is smoke and mirrors and will lead you to experience something that is not God.
So is there nothing we need to do? Yes, there is one thing. “He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (Heb 11:6). That’s very easy, but also very difficult. Faith requires that I simply accept that I am able to draw near to His presence because of the complete work of the Cross. If we really believe that, then we will not need the manipulations of men or to work ourselves up to “feel” God. We will simply accept His promises that He will never leave nor forsake us (Heb 13:5).
Those who truly believe, do not need a sign, feelings or some display to prove that He is with us. “We will believe His Word in spite the absence of physical evidence of His presence, and walk with Him. As Paul said: “in him we live, and move, and have our being“ (Acts 17:28). Those who need the experiences are not approaching God by faith and He rejects those who do not come by faith. He also rejects, as thieves and robbers, any who come by some other way, except through the door – Jesus.
“Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.” (Heb 10:19-23)
Anton Bosch
anton@ifcb.net
3310 W Magnolia Blvd
Burbank, CA, 91505
Tel 818 846 5520
***The service, a routine meeting, was scheduled for 50 minutes. Instead, it lasted 185 hours non-stop, 24 hours a day. Intermittently, it continued for weeks. Ultimately, it spread across the United States and into foreign countries. Some say it is being felt even today.***
________________________________________________
Lately it seems many of us have been sharing many concerns and comments about the latest debacles and the latest false revival. There are many occurring presently and I have watched so many videos of people falling to the ground with false anointings that my head is spinning, my stomach is sick, and my heart hurting.The burden many feel for the church is immense. So many are being deceived and loving it.
I have searched the web for true revivals and the result has been dismal to say the least. Then I was sent a link about the asbury revival. I was skeptical because the link was surrounded by new-age articles. But thank God I was persuaded to watch it anyway. The footage is old and the sound poor to begin with, but it improves in a minute or so.
The Asbury Revival – February 1970 – Wilmore, Kentucky
Dr. Dennis Kinlaw was in Canada, away from the college when he received an emergency message to call the Dean….
I have some quotes from this amazing video. Here goes:
The Dean – “I have a problem…and I don’t quite know how to handle it.”
Kinlaw – “What is it?”
The Dean – “It’s chapel..it’s not over yet.”
Kinlaw – “It isn’t over yet? The morning chapel isn’t over yet? What do you mean it isn’t over yet? It is 7:00 at night. (Chapel starts at 10 am) What happened?”
“GOD IS HERE!”
“…the response lasted until the next Tuesday morning, a week later, at 8:00 when we began classes again.”
More quotes:
“Dr. Kinlaw..I am a liar..what do I do?”….”That was the kind of thing taking place. An honest, candid dealing with personal sin and with personal disobedience and personal problems.”
“It is interesting to me to know what the emphasis was…Holy Spirit in those days. There was an amazing openness and transparency.”
“The emphasis was never upon the gifts of the spirit. The emphasis was upon..sin. The need for repentance, need for restitution, the need for repairing relationships, human being to human being and the need for bringing alive into obedience the need for the highest and the best.”
“The amazing thing was a person would tell what had happened, it would be recapitulated, as a person would go somewhere and tell what God had done in his auditorium … it would take place in the church where the person was telling it!”
“The less impressive the student was the more effective an instrument he was”
“How did it come? What called it?…Our need.”
“We had some students interested in prayer. In October before the Spirit came in February six students came together, banded together in what they called ‘the great experiment.'”
“They covenanted for 30 days to take 30 minutes every morning and spend in prayer with the Word, writing down what truth they got from the Word. They were to obey that day, sharing their faith somewhere in the course of the day, and meeting once a week for those 30 days and checking up on each other to see that each one had done his disciplines that week. So for 30 days they met that way and they worked that way.”
********
Did you get that? What a recipe for revival…… and it is no wonder why there are so few….
Take 30 minutes daily….add prayer while in the Word of God.
Search for truth in the Word of God and apply directly to self in obedience.
Take faith and share daily.
Check weekly for compliance.
DAILY PRAYER DAILY READING THE BIBLE DAILY WITNESSING OBEDIENCE TO THE WORD OF GOD
It is no wonder why the church is in crisis and we have false revivals with false gospels with false anointings.
Here is the video….It is about 37 minutes…Please take the time (just over 30 minutes, hint…hint) to prayerfully watch and compare with the revivals of today. The quotes cover the basics but i left out the ending.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1343001998
Actually, I long to attend some of the so-called revivals of today. I want to be in the back of the room, kneeling on the floor with my Bible on the chair. Or just standing at the back, head down in prayer, Bible in hand. First, one should be totally armed with the spiritual weapons of Ephesians before stepping one foot into a demonic meeting. Please pray with me that those who are truly seeking God will be protected from the evil spirits at these meetings. Pray that the Lord will prick their heart with fear, and warn them with the knowledge that something is wrong and that they need to leave immediately.
Now for that 30 minutes each day… You will set this time aside won’t you? Daily, pray in the Word, obey it and share your faith.
God Bless….
DiscernIt 
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