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Unholy Signs & Cash Flows

Bethel’s example of Church working with Corporate and State

 

By Pastor Rod Page
“I dedicate this book to my children’s children’s children’s children. Though we will not meet until we get to heaven, I wanted you to know that I had you in mind as I wrote every word of this book, and I continue to hold you in my heart. You will become the answer to my prayers and the fulfillment of my prophecies. By the time you read this book, I will be watching you from heaven (see Hebrews 12: 1).”[1]

This quotation above is the opening dedication to Kris Vallotton’s upgraded book called Heavy Rain. Its former title was How Heaven Invades Earth. At the outset it sounds like a way to soften, or even spiritualize, the more militant sounding “invade” language in his book from six years ago. I believe this change is part of a new effort to say the same thing in a more sophisticated, and yet more palatable, way in order to attract a wider audience.

In this day and age where everything is seen from a marketing standpoint, as far as publishers and agents and business in general, it is no surprise that this would happen from within the headquarters of a now worldwide movement—Bethel Church in Redding, California.

I am writing this from Redding as it is the closest city to where we live for groceries and doctors. It is also where I lived for several years. It’s a pretty typical town in most aspects, with a Costco and an old converted theater downtown, and a mix of working people and retired folks looking for the sun…. It is even sunnier in Redding than Phoenix!

But Redding is actually quite special in regard to what is happening in Christendom. A phenomenon has grown up here. There is something almost “magical” about the effect that Bethel has had on this community. The city has fallen in love with this “church”. Is this even possible in our day of hysteria over “separation of church and state”? It is not separate in Redding. Bethel bailed out the Civic Auditorium and is running it well from all indications. Bethel is also becoming a major property owner. They have bought and improved several commercial properties and hope to increase their School of Supernatural Ministry to 3000 students in the next few years. (It is currently around 1400.) They want to build a museum of revival in Americana and have spent around $40,000 to purchase one man’s memorabilia collection of articles from major “moves of God” going back into the 1950s.

Bethel is growing while the city of Redding has endured a decline in many facets. Crime is up. The housing market is flat at best. Homelessness is rampant. But Bethel is doing really well. I believe they know why. I think they have discovered a secret to moving forward at this time in their history. Before I get back to this subject let met tell you why I am writing this report.

The Bethel “cash flow” agenda, cited HERE

Why I Write 
Before becoming a full time pastor in 2011 I spent over 30 years being a regular Christian, with a regular secular job, raising a family with my wife of 37 years. Before we moved to Redding we attended a church for 10 years beginning in 1994 in Yuba City, California. We noticed after almost 7 years in that church that the teaching was changing. We heard things that shocked us, but because of intense loyalty to the leadership we tried to justify things we should have checked out immediately. We were told that spiritual warfare was calling out demons by name and defeating them in the atmosphere, and thus allowing our city to have a mass revival. We were told it was always God’s will for us to be physically well. We were told our children were a chosen seed to bring in the great harvest of all time—that they would do miracles greater than Jesus or the Apostles. These things came in slowly, like a steady drip. We were told that Christians have demons that need to be cast out. We were to go on “prayer walks” that would run the devil out of neighborhoods and out of families as we took dominion over our city.

The problem is it didn’t work, and we could not find a good Biblical reason to swallow all of this new teaching. Young people would go to the church’s new “discipleship” school and come out on the other end bewildered by a lack of power, not blaming the leaders who taught them but God, who they thought did not keep up His end of the bargain. We looked at our Bibles and saw texts that were clearly meant for the next world being brought into ours, with no concept for context or proper Biblical interpretation.

It took us almost 3 years to realize we needed to get back to the Bible. Then we found the Discernment Ministries’ Herescope blog (www.herescope.net). God led us to this small cadre of folks who had been writing for years about different new teachings, that were really old things wrapped up in new and upgraded lingo. As Solomon says, there is nothing new under the sun (Eccl. 1:9).

Then, because of a job, and a ministry opportunity to take what we were finding about Satan’s schemes and warn younger believers, we moved to Redding to start a new job and work with a couple we thought truly were wanting to warn others. Sadly, within a year we found out we were not on the same page with the very people we were supposed to serve with. Shortly after this we began to attend a church where the Bible was taught verse by verse. God put us away in His waiting room where we could get our thoughts and hearts in line with His precious Word.

We began to serve the Lord in humble but useful ways. We helped clean the church each week, emptying waste cans and vacuuming the carpet. Later we taught Sunday School. We truly had many glorious times with our 4th grade class teaching through the entire Bible line upon line. Eventually I was asked to teach in place of the pastor when he was out of town. We were asked to shepherd a part of the congregation and had a “home group” of over 40 people in our home each month. What I found in those days was that God is gracious. When we seek Him and His ways for His glory, He provides all we need. His Word has the answers we need to communicate. We don’t need to make up anything fancy to attract attention to it.

I had heard the Lord calling me to ministry when I was 12 years old. I had, because of fear, chosen not to follow His call for many years. Finally at 50 years of age I answered that call. I began to seek the Lord, and asked others to pray with me about going into full time work. I assumed it would be in a ministry to young people, as that was the reason I moved to Redding. I wanted to warn them of what the enemy was trying to do, both within the church and without it. After another year of waiting, just when I began to give up, an opportunity came as the Lord opened up a door for ministry. I have been serving as pastor at a small community church in Lewiston, California, ever since. I live within 35 miles of Redding in the mountains. God is gracious indeed. It is the hardest, and yet most fulfilling job, I have ever had.

But Bethel is still a thorn. I suppose it reminds me of what happened to us in Yuba City. But it is far worse. It is a leader, a worldwide and dominant leader, in a movement rife with error. This is grievous to me personally because it goes after, and actually targets, young people in a huge way. This is why I write. These young people (and old people, too) are precious to our Savior. This movement is swallowing them in ways I never could have imagined even 6 years ago when I lived within a mile of Bethel Church. This church is more sophisticated and more “excellent” in an alarming way.

Finish Article HERE

What Are Bill Johnson’s Heresies?

In the past few weeks, Bill Johnson has been the center of a lot of controversy. With Montanist apologists like Michael Brown defending his errors and whitewashing his heresies and others falling prey to his exploitation, the fact that he is a heretic at all is being questioned. Bill Johnson seriously needs to be tested against the Scripture.

Kenosis

The Kenosis heresy teaches that Jesus set aside His divinity while on Earth. According to this doctrine, Jesus was no longer divine from His birth to His ascension. Bill Johnson has promoted this heresy in Face to Face with God on page 108. He said,

“Jesus set aside His divinity, choosing instead to live as a man completely dependent on God.”

Truth is, if Jesus set aside His divinity and became a man, Jesus would have been nothing more than a man. This is not the only time that Johnson promoted Kenosis. In chapter 7 of When Heaven Meets Earth, Johnson claimed,

“[Jesus] laid His divinity aside as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father.”

To claim that Jesus put His divinity aside while on Earth brings another Gospel. If Jesus was not divine when He died on the Cross, then He would not have been a sufficient sacrifice. In that case His death would be in vain and so would our faith. Instead, Jesus is treated like God while He is on Earth. He received worship (John 20:28, Matthew 2:2, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9), claimed to be God (John 5:18, John 8:24, John 8:58), and did things only God could do all while on Earth (Matthew 9:2, Mark 2:5, 1 Peter 2:22).

Osteenism

Johnson has also taught the false gospel of Osteenism, more commonly called the Prosperity Gospel. The Prosperity Gospel teaches that health, wealth, and prosperity are promises of salvation or obedience. In a 2013 article entitled Courage to Leave a Legacy, Johnson wrote,

“Our connection with God is obviously the source of all blessing, prosperity and goodness in our lives. We make our way prosperous through obedience because when we do what He asks us to do, we strengthen our connection with the source of life.”

I would remind Bill that the most obedient person of the Bible was a poor carpenter who was brutally crucified, and someone who was called the greatest person born of a normal birth (Matthew 11:11) was a nomad who lived in the desert, wore camel hair for clothing, ate locusts and honey, and had his head cut off for his obedience.

Throughout the Bible, we see James get beheaded, Stephen get stoned, and the number of people who have gotten sick appear to pile up: Timothy, Epaphroditus, Trophimus, and even possibly Paul himself. However, that does not stop Johnson from saying Jesus died for our physical healing. In an article entitled Is It Always God’s Will to Heal Someone?, Johnson claims,

“When He bore stripes in His body He made a payment for our miracle.”

 

Retanism

There is another false teaching out there pushed by people such as Kenneth Copeland and Joyce Meyer that teaches that Jesus was born again. I called this teaching “Retanism”, and if it was a civil crime to preach it then Bill Johnson would be found guilty. In one sermon (Which has been reviewed on Chris Rosebrough’s Fighting for the Faith), Johnson can be quoted as saying,

“So [Jesus] was born through Mary, the Virgin, and then he was born again in the resurrection.”

Jesus was not born again because He did not need to be Born Again. He did not have a sinful nature and He, though tempted, did not desire to rebel against God. He was not dead in trespasses and sins, so He did not need to be made alive. However, Bill Johnson says Jesus was born again in many places, including this video, where he asks,

“Did you know that Jesus was born again?”

Finish Article HERE 

A good link to other articles

Bill Johnson / Bethel Church, Redding, California

 

The Theological Errors of Bethel Church and Jesus Culture

By Tony Wood

Source HERE

Bethel Students Engaged in Grave Soaking

I am approached often regarding the ministry of Bethel Church in Redding, California (and subsequently, music that outflows through their musicians “Jesus Culture”). For weeks, I’ve prayed about how best to respond, not desiring to present a statement out of context, gossip, assault the true body of Christ, nor give any further attention to a ministry that is frighteningly far from biblical truth. An opportunity presented itself recently when a friend provided me with a Bethel website post “God, Bad, & the Ugly” from Kris Vallotton who is considered, along with Bill Johnson, the chief leader/prophet for the church. Thus, instead of providing thoughts out of context, I will simply provide biblical response to his publicly made statements regarding Bethel’s ministry philosophy.

After reading over his comments, I do not laugh nor mock, but shed tears. It appears that Bethel desperately desires to “mainstream” their church but cannot synthesize Scripture with their ministry. Their words display a desire to be spiritual but it is quite apparent they have no systematic interpretation process for the Scriptures they attempt to use. Thus, not only are the positions false, they are theologically immature. This is sad for the leaders and their families, but much more so, for those that follow such behavior blindly. We cannot call what these men say or do “church”. In it’s best form, it may be considered immature confusion, a youth ministry gone mad. In it’s worse form, it is demonic. And, I pray God enlighten them to truth and call them to repentance. I also recommend that people avoid the church and any platform of media, music or otherwise, that comes from it’s dark center.

Mr Vallotton’s reflections will be found in bold. I’ve noted vital biblical references in blue, and my brief thoughts following. For sake of time, I’ve only highlighted the most evident errors while leaving dozens on the sideline.

CHURCH INVENTIONS

“…a small, yet influential coalition of people has shared negative reports about us. These reports often include words such as “controversial,” “unbalanced,” or even the word “cult” to describe us. To be frank, I can understand why certain religious leaders or unbelievers might view us through these perspectives. We certainly have made our share of mistakes, both as a leadership team and those who follow us. And we have such a high value for freedom and risk that it has created a kind-of research and development culture where people are encouraged to take risks. I think this stems from the fact that we view ourselves much more as pioneers than settlers. Therefore, we celebrate creativity, revelation, invention and innovation above comfort, safety and security.” – Vallotton

Finish article  HERE

This testimony reminds me so much of the undeceiving period I went through. I did not want to give up the special revelations that I thought were from God. Years back I began to receive dreams and open visions. I did  not know at the time that the anti-depressant the doctor gave me for menopause was the culprit. Then I started receiving “words” because I asked for them. When you open yourself up by any method a lying spirit will gladly accommodate you. Believe me…it created much joy at first and I often wept with happiness. I was soooo spiritually elite. The oppression came later. Had to give it ALL up to be free. It comes at a price.  Read Acts 18-19. The people gathered and burned their magic books. I burned all my notes and revelations that I had channeled. There was nothing magic by the action itself of burning these papers, it was the repentance in my mind and life and turning totally away from the seduction.

Source: http://standupforthetruth.com/2013/07/deceiving-signs-and-wonders-corissas-story/

Deceiving signs and wonders: Corissa’s Story

Screen shot 2013-07-15 at 11.18.00 PMThe following is a testimony of one of our listeners, Corissa, who was deeply steeped in the Signs and Wonders movement infecting many churches. She has given us permission to share her story, in hopes that others caught up in this beautiful deception will be willing to consider the spiritual danger that they are in, and be open to investigating this movement for themselves.This, what I am about to share with you is only a small part of that testimony. As you read, consider that everything I am telling you comes from a person who was on the inside, experienced everything, and saw great things. Before you dismiss me as a nay-sayer, you need to know that, despite, what you may think, I know exactly what it is that I am talking about. I experienced it, felt it, heard it, and saw it.

I’ve seen this gold dust. It always happened during “praise and worship.” I remember the first time I was being encouraged to pray for it. I was told to pray for it and receive it, and I opened my eyes to see my hands sparkling as if gold glitter was on them. There was no one walking around sprinkling this stuff on people. It was real! That is why so many are attributing it to God just because it really does happen. The problem is that it is 100% a sign and wonder, but it is not one of God. I experienced this in my quiet time at home, and anywhere I prayed. In fact, I first witnessed this when a girl at my school invited me to youth group. She was holding out her hand, and you could see it just shimmering. I asked her what it was and she said, “You get this when you have Jesus.” Mind you, I was not saved at the time, but the Lord was already drawing me, and apparently Satan was hot on my heels, too.

I can remember seeing an aurora all around me everything time it happened to me. It almost always followed praying a mantra type of prayer. I’ve never seen the kind of gold that you can cash in, but I did experience seeing big chunks of it on my hand. Everyone would walk around in the congregation showing everyone their hands. Everyone had it! It wasn’t until God showed me the truth behind this phenomenon that I began to realize that I was actually in a trance, hence the aurora.

I first witnessed the falsehood of this “sign and wonder” at a youth meeting one night back in 2006/2007. I was not a youth at this time, but was encouraged to come sit in with the youth to discuss topics that were going to be covered. Anyway, so we were on the topic of gold dust. My husband’s curiosity on the subject had peaked and I began to share some of my experiences (which are many), and so the youth pastor’s wife shared hers. Interestingly enough, she held out her hand and told him to look at all the gold dust that covered it. To my surprise, I saw nothing! I told her this, and she insisted that it was there all over. (Now, I know she would not lie about this as I witnessed it being on her hand in the past.) This baffled me for months as to why I could not see it! In fact, I never saw it again. What I didn’t realize is that God was already leading me away from it as I began doubting so many of my experiences and began questioning the sources. I was no longer practicing contemplative type of prayer nor was entering into a presence. Notice that I said presence, not HIS presence. Gold dust is of the devil.

I used to follow the likes of Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Paul and Jan Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Marlyn Hickey, Jesse Duplantis, TD Jakes, Crystal Cathedral, Paula White, and so on. How did God get me to see the cold-hard truth? First, He showed me that Joel Osteen was twisting Scripture. That was a hard pill to swallow, but even though, it was bitter tasting in my mouth, I digested it with humility. I then began to question teachers for the first time in all the years that I was saved. Pride was being chiseled away and I was actually becoming teachable!

I found a Christian forum, which God used to show me the truth about the signs and wonders movement also known as the hyper-charismatic movement. I fought it tooth and nail; debated with the Moderators of the forum and was really defensive in the apostasy sub-forum. During this time, my church was holding services which were being influenced by Todd Bentley’s Lakeland Revival. I knew something wasn’t right, but couldn’t put my finger on it. I believe the forum debates had planted seeds in my stubborn heart and I was finally given just enough discernment to detect something very off.

I remember one day, my husband was watching GodTV and Todd Bentley was running his marathon. If I remember correctly, that was all that was on for 24 hours a day. I may be wrong. Anyway, I felt a really familiar and unsettling presence filling the room. I immediately went to the computer room. What was that, and why did I feel the need to leave the room in a hurry? If it was of God, then the presence would not have been so oppressive.

Screen shot 2013-07-15 at 11.18.51 PM

I decided that I would actually research about Todd Bentley. I went back to the Christian forum and dug up the thread where they were discussing the revival. I watched the videos exposing the movement and became convinced that this man was either a con-artist, or he was an escapee from the mental institution. I mean, his idea of healing was to punch, kick and body slam the people he laid hands on. On top of that, he liked to say the word “Bam!” when laying his hands on people as if he had some type of anointing from a fight-happy spirit. Crazy!

One video led to another, and finally, a video exposing the Kundalini practice in Todd Bentley’s “revival.” It was at least 7 to 12 videos long. I sat there for hours with my mouth gaping, wondering what to make of it because the very things that were being exposed were, coincidentally, were what I experienced, accepted, and participated in.

I’ll admit, I didn’t want to believe it at first. I prayed to God. I kicked and screamed and cried, “do I have to give up my precious experiences?” I pleaded with God. I didn’t want to let go, but the truth was cracking the foundation upon which this lie stood on. It took weeks for this all to sink in. I read the Bible more, I sought out teachings, and inside felt like a part of me was dying with each blow of truth. It was like someone picked up a rock and threw it at the mirror which shattered the reflection that I had been staring at. It was all just an illusion.

I was not highly favored, as I had been told. I did not have supernatural abilities. My dreams, as spiritual as they were, are subjective. I was spiritually stunted. I was an idolater who got wooed away from the truth through the lips of those who profess to preach “new revelations.” I got saved in a church built on lies and I was spiritually starved.  I had to go back to the milk of the Word. God used this time of despair to show me the truth. I was ripe to receive it and was ready to surrender my experiences for the truth. God opened door after door once I gave up those experiences. They were like carved images that I worshiped. They were my chronicles of truth built on sand!

Story Image

A wolf in sheep’s clothing is on the move again. Todd Bentley.  While he was “preaching” in the past, he was drinking and having an affair.  This is not a man of God… he is of the devil, a liar. There is no proof of the claims he makes.  A wolf feeds on those who are unsuspecting…wanting to be cared for. Flee from him. Run for your lives. He passes on a false spirit anointing, which is dangerous to your soul if you open up yourself to it.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/287652/-Beware-of-the-tattoo-preacher

Sunday December 4,2011

By James Murray and Adam Smith A TORY MP has warned Britons to be wary of claims made by a Canadian preacher who says he can cure cancer and raise the dead.

Thousands have been flocking to hear tattooed former Hell’s Angel Todd Bentley speak at a church in Cwmbran in South Wales, where he is holding revivalist meetings until Thursday.

Last Thursday night he told his audience he had brought 33 people back from the dead and cured more than 100 deaf mutes of their handicap.

Tory MP David Davies, whose Monmouth constituency covers part of Cwmbran, said: “I go to church and respect Christian beliefs, but I am concerned that some of the claims made by Mr Bentley are far fetched and should be treated cautiously.”

Evangelist Bentley, 35, says he had a “miraculous conversion” which saved him from “youth prisons, drugs, sex, satanic music and bondage”.

He told his audience: “In 13 years of preaching we’ve had 33 stories of resurrections from the dead – 20 of them medically verified.

“Everywhere we go we get testimony from someone who has been close to death, had stage four cancer or some incurable terminal condition and received a miracle.

“There would be nights where 30 people would get out of wheelchairs, incredible miracles, thousands of people would be saved every day.

“I prayed for 139 deaf mutes and we had 139 deaf and mute people hear and speak for the first time.

“Some people say miracles are not possible but for me it’s impossible that someone is not healed.”

After his performance at Two Locks Church, Bentley told the Sunday Express: “When we had people raised from the dead doctors called them resuscitations. They were miraculously resuscitated, the doctors didn’t say they were, because they don’t have the terminology for divine

miracles.

I believe in healing whether I have medical verification or not.”

Bentley, who is in Wales with his second wife Jessa, said: “People get cynical because of my background and my appearance and they have an idea of how they think a minister should look.

“I’ve had a lot of public things in my life, I’ve not been perfect and I haven’t done this perfectly either, but I acknowledge my failures and I use my failures to give people strength and hope because really we are all failures in one sense or another.”

He has claimed he can cure cancer by kicking tumours out of bodies with his biker boots. He said: “It’s not something I do regularly but I do have some stories where I’ve been preaching and the faith will come on me.

“I’ve been in a meeting and a woman has a tumour on her face and I heard a voice inside of me, I knew it was the Lord and he said, ‘Pull it off’.”

People travelled from as far away as Germany and Norway to see Bentley on Thursday. Those with conditions ranging from stomach cancer and heart disease to broken bones and arthritic knees queued to be “healed”.

Lucinda Rodregis, 68, has angina. She said: “I can’t climb the hill near my home because it’s too strenuous, but tomorrow I’m going to try and if I can do that then I’ve been healed.

“But I didn’t come here to be cured I came to see Todd Bentley, I just love what God does through him.”

Bill Johnson’s ‘Born Again’ Jesus, Part II

[It will probably be best to read or review part I before reading this article.  In addition, it is important to view The Kingdom of God is at Hand, Part II as this provides more insight into Bill Johnson’s theology and its possible New Age implications. Once again, I’m indebted to all those who’ve assisted.  Thank you!]

In part I, we discussed the Christology of Bill Johnson based on his words from a portion of his sermon series titled Jesus Is Our Model as well as quotes from other sources. In part II, we will look further into Johnson’s doctrine and compare it to some other aberrant theology. Here’s the same part of his sermon which was referenced in the first part:

“…Did you know that Jesus was born again? I asked… the first service and they said, “No.” But I will show it. It’s in the Bible. He had to be. He became sin.

In Hebrews 1 it says this, “For to which of the angels did he ever say, ‘You are my son. Today I have begotten you’?” And Acts 13 explains that: “God has fulfilled this for us, their children, in that he has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are my Son, Today I have begotten You.’ And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption.” He was born through Mary the first time and through the Resurrection the second time. He was ‘born again.’” [1]

Read Entire Article HERE

I am looking forward to Part III

 

A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Birmingham News.

 Before the first feather appeared November 16th, Pastor Sam said he had been preaching that his interdenominational congregation was on the verge of something big. “God’s fixing to do something that we’ve never seen, he told his flock, and it’s going to blow our mind.” But even the pastor said he got uneasy when the unusual events began. While his church is openly Pentecostal, Sam said he had never veered into “wild, loony stuff.” “When you say you are receiving manifestations of angels, people think you’re crazy,” Sam said. To the natural ear, it sounds foolish. The pastor said he may have the feathers tested, but no matter what the findings, he’ll always believe they came from God. “I’ve had around 15 feathers appear before my eyes,” he said. The evidence is just overwhelming. Sam said, “Miracles shouldn’t seem out of the realm of possibility for a God given credit for such things as parting the Red Sea, crumbling the Walls of Jericho, and raising Jesus from the dead. It’s just amazing how close we walk to the supernatural realm,” he said. “The only thing hindering us from it is our own faith.”

 

Tom:

Dave, feathers-we’ve had gold dust, we’ve had gold teeth and feathers. That’s interesting.

 

Dave:

Well Tom, you’re trying to be kind. It’s-oh, I shouldn’t use the word, it is a bit ludicrous. I don’t think angels have feathers on their wings. The Bible very clearly says, “He maketh his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire,” Hebrews 1. So the idea that angels would have physical form and that they would have physical feathers- I mean you are going to fly to Heaven with wings made out of feathers? It doesn’t compute Tom, it doesn’t make sense.

 

Tom:

Well Dave, years ago, Pastor Buck, remember Pastor Buck?

 

Dave:

Sure.

 

Tom:

Pastor Buck was taken up into the 3rd heaven and he was right there in the throne room of God and when asked how he knew it was the throne room of God he said well there are feathers on the floor. You know and he was quoting what is it-Psalm 91? “He shall cover you with his feathers and under his wings you shall take refuge and his truth shall be your shield and buckler.”

 

Dave:

Yes, well Tom right there in the portion that you quoted, you have the refutation of-God is some kind of big bird with feathers. “His truth shall be your shield and buckler.” How do you make a shield out of-shield and buckler, that’s what it means, you know the buckler is what you hold on to that shield with. How do you make a shield out of truth? And Paul writes “…taking the shield of faith where with you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.” Now if demons are shooting fiery arrows at us, then I guess angels have wings with feathers, but that’s not what it is talking about and one of the basic errors that man has fallen into is exchanging the spiritual for the physical. We become earthly minded; we become materialistic and we think something isn’t real unless it is physical. So, it doesn’t make sense. I mean what is the point?

 

Tom:

Dave before you address the point, in the Old Testament we have angels described with feathers, whether it be the cherubim or the seraphim. But it is interesting-

 

Dave:

Where does it say feathers? It says wings-

 

Tom:

I’m sorry-wings-I’m sorry. Wings-you’re right, but there they are with wings. All right? Now, what’s interesting is that in the New Testament with all the manifestations of angels, you never hear about wings, you never hear about feathers and we have many manifestations. So now what is the point of this? A man has a church, there are feathers flying down every which way-what does that mean?

 

Dave:

Tom, as I said, we are trying to have some physical evidence for a spiritual reality. That an angel would leave a feather-what does that mean? Is that going to be the basis of my faith now? And the man says that even though an analysis may show these are chicken feathers-he didn’t use those terms but how are you going to find out whether it was really an angelic feather? Well they will show that those feathers, I can guarantee you, belong to some fowl that lives on this earth. The Bible says that He makes His angels spirits. Flames of fire, ministering spirits to minister to those that shall be heirs of salvation. It tells us to not even try to look into who the angels are, what they may be doing and so forth. That is not our job. Our trust is in God and our faith is not in some feathers. Our faith is in the Word. That is why we call this Search the Scriptures Daily. Our faith is in the Word of God not in some physical manifestation. When Jesus said “I am the Bread of Life,” is He a loaf of bread? You know when He said I am the True Vine you are the branches, is He a grape vine and we are branches? No-so you have this sort of thing all through the Bible. So when it says He will cover you with His feathers and under His wing shalt thou trust, Jesus said, “how often would I have covered you-gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings and you would not.” Jesus doesn’t have wings. This is an allegorical statement.

 

Tom:

These are metaphors that people could relate to and identify. Dave the sad thing about this is that the very things that we’ve been talking about, evidence and faith-this man has, wittingly or unwittingly, has undermined.

 

Dave:

This is not the kind of evidence the Bible gives us. This is not the evidence upon which I would hang my eternal destiny and whether an angel appeared or not-what does that have to do with Jesus Christ being the Savior of sinners and man’s eternal destiny? So it is a way of side tracking people from what is really important.

:::::::::::::::

For further reading please read

http://www.christianresearchservice.com/FeathersFromHeaven.htm

Excerpt from the above article by Bud Press

It must be emphasized that a claim without solid evidence is like a bird without feathers–it won’t fly. The burden of proof rests with the one making the claim. Chad Leatherby claims to possess numerous “angel feathers.” He provided CRS with what he believes to be “angel feathers,” and was informed upfront that the feathers would be analyzed and examined by qualified experts. However, the feathers Leatherby provided were BIRD FEATHERS!

A Story of God’s Love, Mercy, and Grace 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paul and Danny have been best friends since high

school. Both are Christian and attend the same

church. They live in the same neighborhood and

get together often for fellowship and Bible study.

But their friendship and fellowship is about to be

tested, in ways they could never imagine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Riiiing…Riiiing…Riiiing…

Hello?

Paul, this is Danny. You need to come over to my house as soon as possible! You won’t believe this!

Paul: What’s going on, Danny? Are you okay?

Danny: I’m fine. I visited a new church last night and, and…

Paul: Danny, calm down for a minute. You’re talking so fast I can hardly understand what you’re saying.

Danny: I can’t help it! I’m so excited! You’ve got to come over as soon as you can!

Paul: Okay. Okay. I’ll be there in a few minutes.

Danny: Please hurry!

No sooner than Paul pulled into Danny’s driveway, Danny ran outside, jumping up and down, and met Paul as he exited his car.

Danny: Paul, you’re not gonna believe this! You’ll have to see it with your own eyes! Praise the Lord! This is fantastic!

Paul: Okay. I’m here. What’s going on? What is it you want me to see?

“Paul, you’re not going to believe this!” Danny exclaimed, as he hurried Paul to the front door. Inside, Danny ushered Paul to a chair and said, “You need to sit down.”

Read Full Story Here:

http://www.christianresearchservice.com/DiamondsFromHeaven.htm

Analyzed, Examined, and Found Wanting

by Bud Press, Director

Christian Research Service

www.christianresearchservice.com

January 19, 2009 

 

 

 

‘Angel feathers’ in their caps 

 

Question: Who made the following statement? Patricia King? Benny Hinn? Todd Bentley? Pastor David Jones? Joshua Mills? Bill Johnson?

Angels often send us little reminders of their presence as angel feathers, which are small white feathers. These seem to appear from nowhere when we are down and in need of comfort. I remember sitting in a café, watching the rain falling on the pavement outside and feeling blue. Suddenly, a small white feather floated down in front of me and landed on my table. I smiled, knowing the angels were around me, with their comforting presence. [emp. theirs]

 

 

For the answer to this question read the extensive research done by Bud Press

HERE

 

Posted from: Just to make you Think

This blog is designed to make you think. Also to encourage, exhort, edify and warn the saints of God as we see the day of  The Lord on the horizon.

 

Another Lie Via God-less TV

 

bickle

When Mike Bickle of IHOP speaks saints-don’t listen.

Just happened to catch a snippet from an e-mail I got from “God TV” (that’s a joke-it should be called God-less TV). These same people were the ones who broadcast Todd Bentley world wide to deceive thousands. http://www.god.tv/node/519

Photo shows Rory& Wendy Alec of God-less TV, with Mike Bickle at IHOP (International House of Prayer.)

He was telling all his large audience “Jesus will not come back until the church has shaken off the spirit of slumber, operates in the anointing of prayer and has a bridal identity”…now just where in scripture does he find that? While these things sound good, they are not truth, and we know a little leavens the whole lump. These teachings are so subtle, that the young and unlearned cannot distinguish truth from a lie.

Full Article here:

http://justtomakeyouthink.blogspot.com/2008/12/another-lie-via-god-less-tv.html

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