Because of a special program broadcast in Brazil November 13, 2011 featuring Paul Gowdy, two new translations of his article are available.
https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/a-decepcao-toronto-pelo-pastor-paul-gowdy/
Portuguese Version link above
https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/el-engano-de-toronto-por-el-pastor-pablo-gowdy/
Spanish Version link above
*Update*
The Toronto Deception
By a former Toronto Vineyard Pastor
It has taken me nine years to actually come to the place where I would write this story. Part of the reason was because I was not fully convinced that it is appropriate to speak out against weaknesses in the body of Christ publicly. Another reason is because it has taken years of soul searching to become convinced that what happened in the Toronto Airport Church was actually all bad or at least more bad than good!
For the past number of years I have called it a mixed blessing. I think James A. Beverly called it this in his book Holy Laughter and the Toronto Blessing 1994. Today I would call it a mixed curse concluding that any individual good that came from this experience is far outweighed by much harm and satanic deception. I suppose that therein has been my dilemma. I have tried to live my life in the fear of the Lord and Jesus told us that the unforgivable sin was the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Attributing to Satan what was in fact a work of God. If pressed as to whether or not the Toronto blessing is all God or all Devil I will still be hedgy, but I am convinced that Satan has used this experience to blind people to the historical doctrines of God, to produce fruit in keeping with repentance, to failing to test and discern the spirits and failing to test prophecy.
After three years of being in the thick of the Toronto blessing our Vineyard assembly in Scarborough ( East Toronto) just about self destructed. We devoured one another, with gossip, backstabbing, division, sects criticism etc. After three years of ‘soaking,’ praying for people, shaking, rolling, laughing, roaring, ministering at TACF on their prayer team, leading worship at TACF, preaching at TACF, basically living at TACF we were the most carnal, immature and deceived Christians that I know. I remember saying to my friend and senior pastor at Scarborough Vineyard Church in 1997 that ever since the Toronto Blessing came we have just about fallen to bits! He agreed!
My experience has been that the manifestation of spiritual gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians 12 was much more common in our assembly, before January 1994 (when the Toronto blessing started.) than during this period of supposed Holy Spirit visitation.
During 1992-1993 when praying for people we would experience what I believe was genuine prophesy, deliverance and much grace and favour from the Lord. After the Toronto Blessing started, all ministry time changed, the only prayers were ‘More Lord MORE ’, the shouting of ‘Fire’ the jerky shaking of the body with the ‘ooh ooh OOH WOOOAAH’ prayer. (I kid you not!)
On January 20th 1994 about 15 people from our church traveled over to Toronto Airport Vineyard in order to listen to Randy Clark, a Vineyard pastor from the USA. John Arnott had called our senior pastor to invite us. He communicated that Randy had been to the Rodney Howard Browne meetings and that the stuff had broke out in his church in the following weeks. John was hoping that something might break out with us too. We were only too happy to travel over. We were a church plant out of the Toronto Airport and we started in 1992. In those days there were three Vineyard Churches in Toronto. One Down Town church, Scarborough vineyard church to the east and the Airport Church. We were one big happy family. Because we were small in number we did special meetings, conferences etc, together.
The year before most of our leadership teams joined and had headed to Nicaragua for a short term missions trip. We had genuine love and fellowship with each other. Since leaving the Vineyard churches I have read a fair bit of analysis from the critics.
Some make out that the Toronto Blessing was one huge conspiracy to lead the body of Christ into heresy. Heresy and apostasy I suspect may well be the result, but none of these destinations were intentional. I am honestly convinced that the leaders in the Vineyard churches are genuine born-again Christians who love the Lord, but have fallen into deception. They have not loved the Lord enough to keep His commandments. They have failed to obey the scriptures and have been led astray by our longing for something bigger and brighter and more exciting and dynamic. I am guilty of this sin also. I have preached renewal in Korea, the United Kingdom, the USA and here in Canada. I am genuinely repentant and in writing this story I would ask you the bride and body of Christ to forgive me. Especially the Pentecostal / Charismatic Christians among you, for you are my immediate family theologically. I am an evangelical Christian, I always have been but I do not believe in the cessation of the spiritual gifts at the end of the apostolic era. I believe that it was my evangelical roots (my family are Baptists and I was born again in the Presbyterian Church.) that started to open my eyes to problems with this so called renewal.
In hind sight I look back and think how could I have been so blind? I laughed at people acting like dogs and pretending to urinate on the columns of the TACF building. I watched people pretend to be animals, bark, roar, cluck, pretend to fly as if they had wings, perpetually act drunk and sing silly songs. How I thought that any of this was from the Holy Spirit of God amazes me today. It was loud irreverent and blasphemous to the Holy God of the Bible. I suppose in my mind I reasoned that as long as they did not teach any thing in direct violation to scripture then it was what we called the exotic. This is a buzz word for manifestations that could not be justified from a biblical perspective. I was taught from the pulpit that we had two options. The order of the nursery full of life and messy or the order of the graveyard, very orderly but dead!
As a young immature pastor I wanted life with mess. I failed to remember that God wants us to become mature and grow up in him. I became disconcerted by the prophetic words that came forth especially one by Carol Arnott in which she had her bride experience where she was taken into the very presence of Jesus and said that the love that she experienced was even better than sex! I was shocked in my spirit and thought how can one compare the love of God with sex? When we suspected that demons were running riot in our services John Arnott would teach that we should ask are they coming or going. If they are leaving then that is ok! John would defend the chaos by saying that we ought not be afraid of being deceived, if we have asked the Holy Spirit to come and fill us then how could Satan come and deceive us? This would make Satan very strong and God very weak! He said that we needed to have more faith in a Big God to protect us than in a Big Devil to deceive us. This sounded very convincing but was totally contrary to scripture for Jesus and Paul and Peter and John all warn us about the power of deceiving spirits and especially so in the last days. Again we did not love God enough to obey His Word and the result was that we opened ourselves up to lying spirits. May God have mercy upon us!
Finally the penny dropped for me as I was rolling around one night ‘drunk in the Spirit’ as we would say. I started singing and as I rolled around the floor the Nursery Rhyme ‘Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow.’ came to mind. I sang this in a mocking spirit and instantly my heart told me this was a demon. Instantly I repented and was in total shock. How could a demon get into me? Did I not love God? Was I not zealous for the things of God? Was I not nuts about Jesus? I knew that an unclean spirit had just manifested through me and I was guilty of great sin. After this experience I stayed away from TACF. I did not go back there any more. I did not possess the conviction to denounce the whole experience but thought that we where failing to pastor the Blessing well enough.
Even after I stopped going over to TACF, I had to pastor the fruit of it. One example was when some of our people returned from a meeting there asking us if we had all received the golden sword of the Lord? I asked them what they were talking about thinking that it was some prophetic reference to the Holy Scriptures but they said, ‘no, its not the Bible, it’s an invisible golden sword that only the really pure can receive. If taken in an unrighteous fashion then the Lord would kill you. But if you are holy enough to receive it then you can wield this sword and it will heal aids, Cancer etc. and bring salvation. How one wielded this sword was by pretending to have this invisible sword in your hand and motioning to strike people with it when in prayer! I thought while even in deception at this time that the TACF had become Looney bins! This was purportedly first received by Carol Arnott and then given to the ones holy enough to receive it!
Another thing was the golden fillings in the teeth. We had people in our assembly peeping down one another’s throats looking for the gold fillings that God had placed there to show how much he loved them! In all my time there I only heard one message on repentance given by a visiting speaker from Hong Kong named Jackie Pullinger. It went over like a lead balloon. We were not there to repent, we were there to party in the Lord! After one year into the blessing I spoke out at a pastors meeting and said ‘guys we have shaken, rattled, rolled, laughed cried and bought the tee-shirt. But we have no revival, no salvation, no fruit and no increased evangelism so what’s the deal?’ I was soundly rebuked – who was I to expect to see fruit when the Lord was healing his broken people? We had been legalistic long enough and God was spending this time restoring his wounded and freeing us from legalism I was told not to push the Lord and the harvest would come in his time.’
I knew this was wrong because the Lord had commanded us to go into all the earth and make disciples! Not, that everyone should take a sabbatical for who knows how long, while God does some strange new thing! Ultimately I left over something as controversial as the ordination of women. Personally I believe from scripture that women should not be pastors/ elders in a local assembly. I could be wrong on this and there is much debate in the Church today but that is my conviction and in the Vineyard churches they were ordaining all the pastors wives to co pastor with them. I am certainly for women in ministry but believe that the Elder/ pastor role in a local assembly has been reserved for men. I did not write scripture but God willing I will have the grace from now on to obey it.
So there is my story. I could go on and document much excess, folly, sin and latter day reign teaching that manifest from the prophetic end of this Blessing but others have already done that. We sang about Joel’s army and the billion soul revival as if it were one of the Ten Commandments, and as always it was just around the corner. Next month, next year etc. Jesus said that when the son of man returns will he find faith upon the earth? And if he does not return when he does no flesh would be saved but for the sake of the elect he comes. This is a far cry from the dominionism that is being taught all through the vineyard / prophetic/ spiritual warfare movement. I honestly think that they think they are going to take over the whole world! While in the Vineyard I embraced a life verse from the Apostle Paul the phrase do not go beyond what is written!
To finish I just want to say sorry for the damage, that I have personally done by teaching things that are not correct biblically. I repent before men as I already have before God. I will not excuse my falling into deception. I did not bother to test things when the scriptures commanded us to do so. Everyone who was there when this thing started knows that what I write is true, they would just come to different conclusions especially if they are still promoting the ‘river!’
To those in the river I would say swim out, there are things living in the water that will bite you real good! I love the people of TACF and the Vineyard movement but I think that we have much to answer for and may the Lord open your eyes sooner rather than later. I suspect that when this letter goes online I will get bombarded by emails from both camps, some damning me for still believing in the ministry of the Holy Spirit and still walking in deception and some old friends damning me for exposing dirt or being negative about the Lords anointed! Well, the Lord knows my heart and by his grace he will guide me into all truth as I seek to know Christ and him crucified! If you believe that I walk in sin and error please pray for me that the Lord would forgive me and open my eyes. I will study the word to show my self a work man approved! I would call on all who read this to pray that the Lord would open the eyes of all who have been involved in this deception. Whether leader or follower, we are loved and the Lord is a forgiving God. He says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. I believe we are like the church in Laodicea, we think that we are rich, have prospered and need nothing, we do not realise that we are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked. We must take the Counsel of Jesus and buy gold refined in the fire (which is his suffering, not a false spirit!), white garments to clothe our shameful nakedness and salve for our eyes that we might see again. Jesus is calling us to repentance and thank the Lord that he is, for it will lead us to true restoration with our Father! If God has forgiven me and opened my eyes then he can do it for all those caught in deception too. I will finish with a warning from Paul, he says if you think you are standing firm be careful lest you fall.
Sincerely Paul Gowdy.
DiscernIt 
107 comments
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February 24, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Kim
I just listened to the interview on the above link, with Paul Gowdy and Drew Marshall. He does indeed clear up some issues. The interview is dated February 7, 2009
The article found on the TACF website says this:
Paul Gowdy very kindly explains the above as false information. He was at Scarborough June 1994 through May 1994. He said his last paycheck there made it “four years minus one month”. He started as an assistance pastor then was an associate pastor. He preached three evening services at TACF.
His interview reveals that he is now a man dedicated to the Word of God and obedience to scripture, that the “church should be weeping” not laughing. It seems he has returned to his fundamental roots and likes reformed theology.
But I don’t want to comment further so, please listen to this very important interview.
Here it is again.
http://www.drewmarshall.ca/listen2009.html#090207
May 3, 2009 at 3:07 am
eric
wow this is so 1997. Are people still trying to dis what God did in tacf ???? the fruit was good , God is still good and people are still in love with Jesus. \o/ don;t hate ,,the meat is still on the street
May 3, 2009 at 7:40 am
Kim
Maybe you should listen to Paul Gowdy’s interview in the above link.
Also there are many personal testimonies of the tacf in the below link that discusses some of the fruit.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/blessing.html
We can learn from people’s past experiences and we can find biblical truths, well… in the Bible. For instance instead of saying something like… “that is so Old Testament”….we can study the Israelites, God’s chosen people, and determine what is recorded for our benefit so that we can learn what God expects of us in worship and obedience to His word. They did not love God enough to obey His commands. All the signs and wonders they saw and witnessed, did not give them faith, and the first generation was destroyed in the desert.
I don’t doubt people’s love for Jesus but they have to worship in Spirit and Truth to please God or they may be lead down the wrong path. God’s requirements for forgiveness is repentance.
God is love but God hates sin. Study Leviticus, it is about God’s holiness. God is good but when He returns He is coming in wrath and as a judge. If you only look at one attribute of God ( i have a list of 160 attributes taken from scripture) , such as love, you will not have a complete biblical basis of who He is.
May 3, 2009 at 7:49 am
Kim
this comment from wearymom dated April 29th from the John Crowder article is exceptional and is full of truth.
“God’s love and wrath….don’t they go hand in hand like two sides to the same coin? He would not be a loving God if He did not have wrath/hatred for what is evil. Am I right? This may sound strange, but I think God’s wrath is actually an expression of His love. His wrath is holy wrath and it is necessary. By it He will judge the world and wipe out evil forever. Praise God for His wrath! (Though I am glad I don’t have to come under it…and no one has to because of what Christ has done.)No one here is condemning Mr. Crowder or his followers…only God can do that. What we are doing is using discernment, applying God’s Word to see if this teaching is truly of the Lord. If we conclude it is not, then we have an obligation to expose the error and to warn people so they will not come under God’s wrath someday. That, my friend, is a very important way to show the love of God. Warning people of the wrath to come is a very loving thing to do.”
August 14, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Margie in Oz
I don’t know how to contact Pastor Paul so will post here and maybe someone will respond
Dear Pastor Paul, Thank you so much for that radio interview. I live in Australia and the Toronto Blessing is alive and well in the Pentacostal/charasmatic churches. Soaking prayer is the in thing. I have been awakened to this error but only after one Todd Bentley burst onto the scene. I’m actually grateful as watching him on GodTV whilst housesitting, shook me out of my slumber and for the last year I have learned much as to the counterfiet spirit at work in the church. Sadly so many wonderful christian friends are totally caught up in this and just cannot/will not listen giving me all the standard stock answers, I’m touching God’s annointed, have a religious, legal or lying spirit, etc. I was baptised in the spirit back in 1975 and suffered many months of confusion and really do question my experience. Listening to Benny Hinn give false prophecies which are interjected with tongues, claiming he is speaking directly from God really makes me question the source of his “tongues”. I do have some questions though as to the cessation of tongues as I have heard, but only from others, some wonderful testimonies of people hearing in their own language of God’s mighty works, like on the Day of Pentecost and wonder if you believe some tongues are still for today? I have personally experienced immediate healing when hands were laid on me so cannot reject healing as a gift of the spirit today. Do you believe that the “word of knowledge” is a gift still operating in the church today. Maybe someone else could comment as I am still a work in progress and have much to unlearn but more to relearn. I have personally witnessed John Scotland, played on the radio at the end of your interview, when he came to a church in Melbourne, he was drunk and on the floor until time for him to preach. Preach, I have never heard such blasphamous rubbish with shing ding wizz bang wee shooong noises interjecting incoherent speaking but the people laughed and clapped, made grunting and whoaing noises all in the name of our Lord and the supposed annointing of the Holy Spirit. John and Carol Arnott also visited this church and similar manifestations were present. I wonder how I ever got so far from the true gospel of my precious Saviour, Jesus. I too have repented before God of any involvement with this movement and desire to only worship Him in spirit and truth. Bless you Paul and may many others wake up before Jesus’ soon return.
August 14, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Craig
Margie in Oz:
I’ve been a semi-regular contributor here; so, I’ll respond:
I’m so glad the Holy Spirit showed you the error of the “Toronto Blessing” through witnessing the falsehoods of Todd Bentley. I became aware of hyper-pentecostalism/charismania through an individual I met over two years ago not having any background in pentecostalism previously. This lead me into a search of Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God/Joel’s Army and other heresies which have come out of a heretical wing of this denomination. Todd Bentley is clearly a part of this.
To answer your question regarding spiritual gifts:
In reading 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 in their entirety I am convinced that the spiritual gifts can still be in use today. However, it’s all up to the Holy Spirit to the glory of God:
All these [spiritual gifts] are the work of one and the same Spirit [the Holy Spirit], and He gives them to each one as He determines. 1 Cor 12:11 NIV
Throughout these passages, the Apostle Paul makes it clear that prophecy is more important than tongues. And, for the record, the word prophecy means speaking the Word of God. This can be a foretelling/predicting or it can be a forthtelling. My interpretation of these passages is that Paul is speaking exclusively of the forthtelling variety as 1 Corinthians 14:18-19 illustrates.
Now, regarding tongues — I will post something I recently posted in a closed group:
I’ve made mention a while back on a few different blogs of how someone I know spoke in tongues which was understood by the audience. Briefly:
‘John’ was on mission’s trip to China (I don’t recall where exactly); and, at one point he felt led to ‘preach’ even though his main talent is in music (he can play most any instrument). With a prepared sermon he approached the podium; however, once he placed his Bible on it there was a glare preventing him from reading his chosen passages.
As he squinted trying to read it he grew panicky; but, then a calmness came over him and he just began to speak. He ended preaching the Gospel. While he had an interpreter to the Chinese audience, he did not realize that the intrepeter was silent as ‘John’ was actually speaking Mandarin Chinese — a language he did not speak.
To his surprise, a large number (150 or so as I remember) came forward in response to the altar call as he finished his sermon. His interpreter then remarked, surprised, about how ‘John’ had just spoken perfect Mandarin Chinese. ‘John’ was equally surprised. And, I’m sure the audience was just as surprised.
That, to me sounds like a genuine tongues experience. While the Corinthians passages make it clear that Paul himself spoke in tongues, I believe a large portion of today’s ‘tongues’ speaking is either of the flesh or demonic.
I hope this helps.
August 14, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Margie in Oz
Thanks Craig,
Your comments are much appreciated. I believe that the gift of discernment is what is most lacking in the church today, indeed I failed there too. Although I attended some of these churches there was alway a check in my spirit, I just assumed these people were more spiritually mature than me. I now rely on God’s word and not theirs, Margie
August 15, 2009 at 7:38 am
Kim
Margie,
Thank you for your insightful comments and sharing your experience. I believe that many like you have that check in their spirit and then will seek the truth.
I like this verse
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
We know the truth by reading the Word and letting the Holy Spirit teach us.
The epistles are full of warnings and instruction for the endtime church. False doctrine, false teachers, IN THE CHURCH…..the grievous wolves….are wearing a disguise of the sheep and are fooling those who are not grounded.
August 15, 2009 at 7:50 am
Kim
Craig,
Thank you for relating the experience of “JOhn” on a missions trip. I have heard of wonderful examples of the true gift of tongues. Although, I only personally know of one single person who heard someone speak in tongues and listened to the translation. It was “heavenly words of angels” according to this person whose eyes filled with tears remembering the incident, many years ago.
I was at a conference once when the charismatic speaker asked all the people at the stadium to stand and speak in tongues.
Hundreds/thousands? did and it seemed so ungodly and wicked. I didn’t know much at the time but now I know why. It was unscriptural.
August 16, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Paul
Hello Kim Olsen, I happened upon your web site this evening and want to thank you for being kind to me concerning your attempt to counter some of the falsehoods spoken about me on the web. I try not to take peoples ideas about me too seriously lest I become discouraged. I am what I am by the grace and mercy of God. I own my failures and confess my sins to the Lord. If there is any good it’s His work and not mine so there’s nothing to boast about.
I’m know doctrinally I’m quite far from the charismatic church today but not fully in the Cessationist camp either. This tends to place me on a bit of a lonely walk but unless my heart is convinced from scripture I am too afraid to embrace any doctrine that I do not see clearly taught in the Word.
I do not believe in the gifts of prophecy , tongues or (spiritual) knowledge as being for today and this is simply from my understanding from 1st Corinthians 13. ( Sorry guys if that offends or disappoints?) Having said that I do believe that the other gifts mentioned in 1st. Corinthians 12 are for today but obviously the ability to interpret between tongues is no longer necessary if the biblical gift of tongues has actually ceased…. That would place me believing in the remaining five gifts mentioned in that chapter.
The gift of faith, miracles, discerning of spirits, healing and wisdom. I do not see any passage in the scriptures that would teach that God has ceased to grace His church from the five mentioned above. The others I have rejected as I said because verses 8-10 of 1st Corinthians 13 that tells me that they would be done away, cease and vanish away.
I am happy to reason from scripture as to my biblical conviction but it might take a fair bit of space to reason back and forth.
One serious problem I do have with the baptism of the Spirit doctrine(s) is that It seems to have almost singularly destroyed the doctrines of protestantism that led to seperation from false churches and even cults.
The Idea being that if God pours his Spirit out upon protestant charismatics so that they can prophecy and speak in tongues and He also pours His Spirit out upon Roman Catholic Chraismatics so that they can prophesy and speak in tongues then as protestant pentecostal/ charismatics, who are we to reject Romanism over protestant doctrine?After all, if God accepts our Catholic friends by baptising them with His Spirit who are we to let doctrine divide us any longer?
The overwhelming experience of catholic charismatics is that their tongue speaking experience has deepened their devotion to Mary, their devotion to the mass and their catholic practice of the sacraments.
Spirit Baptism has in my opinion removed doctrine as a barrier to a modern bogus unity at the cost of biblical orthodoxy. So Margie if you are reading this I hope it helps a little?
I am also writing as one who spoke in tongues for 19 years. ( and could do it now if I so choose to! I just do not believe that the modern pentecostal gift is the same as the one that was found and used in the scriptures.) I have had as many spiritual experiences as the next fellow and possibly more than some, but personal experience can never take precedent over holy scripture. As the scripture itself says, let God be true and every man a liar!
Margie I would suggest to you that if in doubt throw it out. Don’t worry about babies in bath water. I believe that the Lord would rather have his people walk in the fear of Him and the love of him too much to take any risks with doctrine or spiritual experiences that might possibly be bogus.
If you would like to talk about some of this stuff further then perhaps Kim can forward you my e.mail address or send me yours? ( Thanks Kim)
Anyway keep up the good work Kim and Lord willing you can reach others and pull them from the ( strange) fire.
In Christ, Paul.
August 16, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Craig
Paul,
Thanks for your contribution here. I recall you commenting on the ol’ Sign of Jonah site. During that time I went by the name Lee — my middle name.
I’ve never been to a Pentecostal or Charismatic church myself, have never spoken in tongues; but, I do believe the Holy Spirit gave me the gift of prophecy — that is by forthtelling NOT foretelling. I believe this is what the Apostle Paul speaks of when he compares prophecy to tongues in chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians.
To determine whether the gifts of 1 Cor 13 are for today is to determine what the “perfect” or “perfection” is in verse 10. I know this has been hotly debated for a while. My understanding is the “perfect” is either: 1) Christ’s second coming; or 2) when we get our resurrection bodies. I’m curious what your view is?
August 16, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Craig
Paul, you wrote:
The Idea being that if God pours his Spirit out upon protestant charismatics so that they can prophecy and speak in tongues and He also pours His Spirit out upon Roman Catholic Chraismatics so that they can prophesy and speak in tongues then as protestant pentecostal/ charismatics, who are we to reject Romanism over protestant doctrine?
I understand what you are saying. However, I reject the whole “pouring out of the Spirit”/Baptism of the Holy Spirit thing because I believe the Pentecost of Acts 2 was a one time event never to be duplicated. In context, I believe what Peter was saying [Acts 2:16-18] in quoting the prophet Joel is that what was happening right then was the fulfillment of the Joel texts [Joel 2:28-29]. That is, this was the first time Christians would be indwelled with the Holy Spirit. From this point forward, every new believer would be indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
I see no scriptural support for any ‘new Pentecost’ at all. I know Latter Rain adherents wish to use Joel 2:22-23; but, this is clearly not the correct context. I do see that Acts 2:19-21 / Joel 2:30-32 are to be fulfilled in the future on the Day of the Lord (second coming).
August 16, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Craig
I should have pointed out above that in Acts 2 the ‘tongues’ speaking were obviously known languages that the audience could understand. This was to the glory of God so that some of these people would be saved.
August 16, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Craig
…and another thing: in my haste I didn’t clarify what I meant by this:
I do believe the Holy Spirit gave me the gift of prophecy — that is by forthtelling NOT foretelling.
I should have made it clear that this was a couple times — not that I have a perpetual gift of prophecy!
August 16, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Kim
Wow. Paul.
Thank you for commenting on my site. I am so pleased. In fact I was searching online the other night to see if you could be reached. I know that you have been associated with Discernment-Ministries and searched their website. I met Jewel and the Leslies, at a Florida conference.
I will forward information to Margie..
And thank you for the encouragement and may God bless you in all you do for Him.
August 16, 2009 at 4:45 pm
cheryl U.
Hi Paul,
If you are reading back here, I just wanted to let you know that I felt bad when you deleted your blogs. There was a lot of good information there and I enjoyed reading what you wrote. Was good to see you are still out there!
Cheryl
August 16, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Paul
Hi Criag/ Lee, nice to chat with you again.
Ok here goes I hope Kim does not mind too much??
There are, as you know basically two understandings of what ‘that which is perfect’ is speaking about here. The One I adhered to for almost 20 years was the pentecostal one. That is that it is speaking of either the eternal state or as you say above the time when Jesus returns ( which for all intents and purposes here are basically the same. At first impression this seems to be the most logical one but I hope to show that it is actually wrong and that the other traditional view is in fact the correct one.
Ok, the other view is that Paul is speaking of the coming of the complete revelation of scripture. This is the position that I hold to today, the reasons for this I will attempt to articulate below.
The primary thought from the chapter most would agree, is the superiority of Charity ( love) over certain inferior gifts. I.E. tongues , Prophecy and Knowledge. It is also about the duration of these gifts. Paul states that Love along with faith and hope will abide while prophesy, Tongues and knowledge will pass away.
This takes us to when the lesser gifts would pass and that takes us to verse 10
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
So what is that which is perfect? The primary reason I can no longer believe that ‘that which is perfect’ is the eternal state is because of what Paul says in verse 13.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Paul here says that faith hope and charity will abide and this is over against prophecy , tongues and knowledge that he has already said would not abide. Here was the kicker for me. If Paul was speaking about the eternal state then charity would be fine but both faith and Hope are totally obsilete in glory. They will no longer be necessary. We will neither need faith, for we will be with God forever in person, nor need hope for we will at that stage already have what we would have hoped for while in this present age!
So Paul is not speaking about the eternal state but only for the duration of this present age. Therefore we have 3 things that will abide during this present age over against three things that would pass away. ( also during this present age if the passage is to remain logical)
Paul goes on to tell us when the three that were to pass would go and that is when, ‘that which is perfect is come.’
Now the anology that Paul uses for that which is perfect is very interesting.
Here is the text
1Co 13:10-12 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
a good rule of thumb is to always allow scripture to interpret scripture. Does the scripture refer anywhere else to looking into a glass as looking into the word of God?
The answer is yes and is found in James, the first chapter
Jas 1:22-25 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
So here we have James comparing the word of God ( scriptures) as to a man looking into a glass. ( mirror modern translations)
The word of God is also referred here in James as being the PERFECT LAW. Again that to me seems similar to Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. when he speaks of that which is perfect.
We know that the church had the scripture from as early as the start of the second century, John wrote Revelation sometime in the early 90’s A.D.
We also see from a church history position that as early as the second century these spiritual gifts seem to have been something that had passed away apart from the cultic deceits of Montanus, Priscila and maximilla who were eventually denounced as heretics. ( two of them committed suicide) This is caled Montanism. It would seem that the idea of these gifts being practiced was something that did not reappear until the middle of the 18th century and then banged off for real in 1906 at Azuza street. The rest is history. Almost every modern varience of protestantism ( not all) has sprung out of the pentecostal movement in the past 100 years and what kim is battling against on her web site today is the children of the modern pentecostal movement.
It has become my scriptural conviction that the modern pentecostal movement is wrong therefore on its baptism in the spirit distinctives. That aside I believe there are millions of sincre pentecostal brothers and sisters in Christ who dearly love the Lord and I believe they are saved. Today I am convinced their doctrine is contrary to scripture and therefore a breeding ground for almost every heresy and false teaching that the western prostestant church is having to deal with in the west if not globally.
I hope I have explained myself clearly?
Sincerely Paul.
August 16, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Paul
Hi Cheryl, you were a great help when debating some of my posts and thoughts on the blog site. Iron sharpening Iron for me! Also, Hi Kim nice to post here 🙂
August 16, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Kim
I do not mind at all. We are excited to hear from you.
I am in agreement with Cheryl. Your blog is dearly missed.
August 16, 2009 at 4:53 pm
cheryl U.
Hi Craig,
Since we seem to be doing personal comments here, I will add that I am glad to know for sure who you are, Craig. I had been wondering for a while now. I knew you had quit going by your middle name quite some time ago but for awhile you used your last name too. You had me a bit confused I guess!
This is getting to be a bit of a “family reunion” here, isn’t it?
August 16, 2009 at 4:56 pm
cheryl U.
Paul,
Thanks for the encouragement.
August 16, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Craig
Hey cheryl U.!
Sorry for the confusion regarding my name. Yes, it is sorta like a reunion. 🙂 I have been very sporadic with commenting on blogs in general; but, I’ve picked it up as of late.
Paul,
Thanks for your response regarding your position of the “perfect.” I’ll have to come back in a bit and go over it again in depth as my attention is divided at the moment.
August 16, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Margie in Oz
Hi Paul, thanks for your reply and I am excited to see the ongoing comments. I can’t draw myself away from the computer whilst trying to babysit 5 months old grandaughter. I will make contact soon and thanks Kim for your help. I still have many questions and will appreciate any contribution you can make that helps me sort through all those questions I have. Incidentally, I have recently entered discussion with a long time Christian friend who is into the (new?) move of laying aside doctrine in favor of unity. She has been telling me how in a small country town where she lives, the churches are getting together for prayer and Father Fruitcake (sorry) has joined in. When asking her how she can fellowship with him I was told he is getting people filled with the Holy Spirit. I am waiting for her to answer my question as to who he is under the pope, or Christ , if the pope, is he still celebrating the catholic mass and if not why is he still a priest in the RC church. I thought the Holy Spirit was given so as to lead us into all truth and out of error. So much doublespeak……..I am sure many would have heard of Hill Song. Last year the pope came to Australia for WYD and Darlene Zscheck, H.S’s leading vocalist and the worship leader said “We see World Youth Day as the great opportunity to serve the Catholic Church in its vision to present the gospel and reach out to our city, our nation and our world in unity”. The road to Rome is paved with deceit and the apostacy is in full swing.
August 16, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Craig
Margie,
…I thought the Holy Spirit was given so as to lead us into all truth and out of error.
Yes, you’re right of course. The Holy Spirit is to guide is into all Truth. Truth is not contrary to scripture. And, the Holy Spirit points us to Jesus who is the Word made flesh.
When asking her how she can fellowship with him I was told he is getting people filled with the Holy Spirit.
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
…22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galatians 5:16-18, 22-26 NIV
If what he is doing is not producing fruit of the Spirit as above we have to wonder what spirit is being conjured up.
Also, I know many talk about the ‘anointing’ or multiple anointings. There is only anointing and that is the indwelling Holy Spirit as the Apostle John points out:
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:20-27 NIV
August 16, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Craig
…only ONE anointing
August 17, 2009 at 8:17 am
Paul
Margie that’s exactly what I was speaking about in my very first post here. The Roman catholics are ministering right along side so called protestants ( who really do not protest much about anything these days!) and because of the common denominator of tongue speaking and / or questionable prophecy, the two walk hand in hand.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
2Cor. 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Rev. 18:4-6 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
The above scriptures support the biblical doctrine of seperation that has been a defence for the christians since the birth of the church. Greviously modern false teachers from Billy Graham to Rick Warren have done/ are doing their very best to reunite the protestant church with Rome.
Any christians who can actually discern the madness of such a reunion are labelled as bigotted, judgemental and living in the past. Never the less, in the words of the Lord Jesus,
…..”But wisdom is justified of her children” Matt. 11:19b
August 21, 2009 at 11:36 am
mbaker
Hi Paul,
Just got back from a trip and checked in here to see what was going on. It is good hearing from you again. We have missed your voice since you shut down your blogs. Please don’t be a stranger.
Hope all is well with you and yours.
God bless.
August 23, 2009 at 6:24 am
Paul
Thanks Mags dito. When Kim creates a new topic/blog i’ll add two cents worth. 🙂
August 23, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Craig
Paul,
Following is an excerpt from an article I wrote last year (though it’s revised a bit). Though this excerpt is from an article on the New Age Movement/New World Order, I wish to show here that the Catholic Charismatic Movement has some parallels with Latter Rain which also parallel New Age doctrine. Apparently, the Papacy has accepted the Catholic Charismatic movement – in fact I have a local magazine titled “TransformSA” (Spring 2008 edition; looks to be affiliated with IHOP as there’s a fair amount of space devoted to River City House of Prayer) which states, “Pope Benedict… embraced the movement.” Here’s a link to the 40th anniversary of the birth of this movement:
http://www.rcan.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.show&feature_id=645
I want to get your take on this. I’ve provided footnotes for back up and further study. Here’s the article:
The Pope’s ties to the United Nations
The papacy has had close ties to the UN since its inception.[1] Pope Benedict XVI “supports robust global governance, in a fashion that has long bewildered neoconservative critics of the United Nations in the United States and elsewhere.”[1] Prior to the Pope’s visit of April 18 of this year [2008], the President of the UN General Assembly, Serjan Kerim anticipated that the visit would be “special” since “more than a billion Catholics in the world share many of the concerns and aspirations of the UN.”[2]
The pope and the UN secretary-general “are two eminent moral authorities in the world,” Archbishop Migliore [Celestino Migliore, the Vatican’s UN nuncio or ‘ambassador’] said noting that the UN secretary-general [currently Ban Ki-moon of South Korea] “is oftentimes referred to as the ‘secular pope.’”
…The Holy See is an international actor of rank and has an important role to play in addressing a number of major international challenges,” he said. One of those challenges, he added, is “religious interfaith dialogue, where the pope has taken important initiatives lately.
…Being at the forefront of the U.N. initiative for an alliance of civilizations,” he said, Spain was “particularly pleased with the pope’s call to interreligious and intercultural dialogue based on the dignity of the human being, which can only be of benefit to the United Nations and international community as a whole.[3]
The Papacy in the New Age
At the 23rd World Youth Day in Sydney, Australia on July 20, 2008 [the trip was actually 6 days total from July 15th through July 20th] Pope Benedict XVI suggested New Age unity:[4]
“In today’s Gospel, [cf. Luke 4:21], Jesus proclaims that a new age has begun, in which the Holy Spirit will be poured out upon all humanity.”[4]
In context the Luke verse is referring to the fulfillment of Isaiah 61:1-2 – a Messianic prophetic passage. While there is no mention of the Holy Spirit being poured out in either the Luke or Isaiah verses, I concede that the beginning of Jesus’ earthly ministry would ultimately culminate in his death on the cross and outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2. However, this quote above sounds suspiciously similar to Latter Rain[5, 6] teaching especially when taken together with the following:
At the Mass, the pope prayed that the World Youth Day experience would be a new Pentecost for all the participants, marking a new outpouring of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.[7]
…may this 23rd World Youth Day be experienced as a new Upper Room, from which all of us, burning with the fire and love of the Holy Spirit, go forth to proclaim the Risen Christ and to draw every heart to him! Amen.”[8]
Additionally, Pope Benedict in his push for ecumenism warned we should not let doctrine divide the Church[9] – another aspect of Latter Rain.
“…We must guard against any temptation to view doctrine as divisive and hence an impediment to the seemingly more pressing and immediate task of improving the world in which we live.”[8]
Further, in his push for unity the Pope asserted that a common celebration of the Eucharist is the path to ecumenism.[9] To be fair, Pope Benedict XVI said this amongst a gathering of Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Christians, Lutherans, Anglicans, some Episcopalians and other denominations who practice the Eucharist[10] (as opposed to the Protestant Communion). But, will the Papacy try to convince other denominations to partake in the Eucharist to further his ecumenical goals?
“While Baptism is the starting point for ecumenical dialogue, the Pope said that, ‘The road to ecumenism ultimately points towards a common celebration of the Eucharist… we can be sure that a common Eucharist one day would only strengthen our resolve to love and serve one another in imitation of our Lord.’”
“‘For this reason, a candid dialogue concerning the place of the Eucharist – stimulated by a renewed and attentive study of scripture, patristic writings, and documents from across the two millennia of Christian history – will undoubtedly help to advance the ecumenical movement and unify our witness to the world,’ the Pontiff said.” [9]
[For those unaware, the partaking of the Eucharist goes hand in hand with the Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation – the belief in the transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ.[11 ] Can this be backed up with Scripture and/or tradition?[12] My belief: when Jesus told his disciples to do this “in remembrance of Me” He was STILL ALIVE IN HIS PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY; so, why would we assume that after His Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension He was to be reincarnated – so to speak – in the bread and wine?]
Note that the pope uses the term ‘new age’ three times in the following short passage. Certainly, Pope Benedict must be aware of the negative implications of the term.
“…Empowered by the Spirit, and drawing upon faith’s rich vision, a new generation of Christians is being called to help build a world in which God’s gift of life is welcomed, respected and cherished — not rejected, feared as a threat and destroyed,” the Bishop of Rome affirmed. “A new age in which love is not greedy or self-seeking, but pure, faithful and genuinely free, open to others, respectful of their dignity, seeking their good, radiating joy and beauty. A new age in which hope liberates us from the shallowness, apathy and self-absorption which deaden our souls and poison our relationships.”
“Dear young friends,” he urged, “the Lord is asking you to be prophets of this new age, messengers of his love, drawing people to the Father and building a future of hope for all humanity.” The world and the Church need this renewal, Benedict XVI affirmed. “The Church especially needs the gifts of young people, all young people,” he said. “She needs to grow in the power of the Spirit who even now gives joy to your youth and inspires you to serve the Lord with gladness…”[8]
[1] Allen, Jr., John L., “The Vatican’s Relative Truth.” The New York Times. 12/19/07
[2] “UN gets ready for Pope Benedict’s visit.” 04/11/08
[3] Stagnaro, Angelo. “Diplomats welcome Pope Benedict’s visit to United Nations.” Catholic News Service. 08/20/08
[4] Flynn, Father John, LC. “The New Age of the Holy Spirit.” Zenit. 07/27/08
[5]
[6]
[7] Wooden, Cindy. “Pope tells young people power of the Holy Spirit can transform world.” Catholic News Services. 07/20/08
[8] “Pope Prays Closing Mass Will Be New Pentecost, Urges Youth to Open Hearths to Spirit’s Power.” EWTN/Zenit.
[9] Wigen, Nancy. “Ecumenism ultimately points toward a common Eucharist, Pope tells Christians.” Catholic News Agency. 07/18/08
[10] Zwarz, Barney, “15 Churches sing ‘Covenant of Cooperation’ to Recognize each other.” VirtueOnline
[11]
[12]
August 23, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Craig
OK, the links got lost. Let’s try again:
[1] Allen, Jr., John L., “The Vatican’s Relative Truth.” The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/opinion/19allen.html 12/19/07
[2] “UN gets ready for Pope Benedict’s visit.” http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/detail/9316.html 04/11/08
[3] Stagnaro, Angelo. “Diplomats welcome Pope Benedict’s visit to United Nations.” Catholic News Service. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802122.htm 08/20/08
[4] Flynn, Father John, LC. “The New Age of the Holy Spirit.” Zenit. http://www.zenit.org/article-23347?l=english 07/27/08
[5] http://www.theopedia.com/Latter_Rain_Movement
[6] http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain7.htm
[7] Wooden, Cindy. “Pope tells young people power of the Holy Spirit can transform world.” Catholic News Services. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0803760.htm 07/20/08
[8] “Pope Prays Closing Mass Will Be New Pentecost, Urges Youth to Open Hearths to Spirit’s Power.” EWTN/Zenit. http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=89982
[9] Wigen, Nancy. “Ecumenism ultimately points toward a common Eucharist, Pope tells Christians.” Catholic News Agency. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13290 07/18/08
[10] Zwarz, Barney, “15 Churches sing ‘Covenant of Cooperation’ to Recognize each other.” VirtueOnline http://virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1094 07/26/04
[11] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation
[12] http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/rcc14-transubstantiation.htm
August 23, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Craig
Apparently, my comment which the links above apply to is awaiting moderation.
August 23, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Kim
Yes, there is a two link maximum.
September 28, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Janice
Paul,
If you are reading this, I would like to thank you for making your testimony public.
I first read it years ago and want you to know that I belonged to Toronto Airport Vineyards first School of Ministry in 95/96.
I also came out from this movement and though it took years of healing, I am free. (have been for a number of years).
I thought hearing this may encourage you as I still don’t hear of many people coming out from this/these movement/s but more going into them.
Have you heard many testimonies like your own?
Please pray for me as I continue to desire to be used of God to help others who are caught up in spiritual deception.
Thanks again and God Bless.
Shalom,
Janice
October 22, 2009 at 1:20 am
Rev Shahbaz Anjum
Dear pastor.
Heartly greetings from pakistan.How wonderful ministry you which is you got from heaven jesus.God bless you you are winning the souls day by day in the world with almighty power of devine heavenly with glory.As i am ministring in pakistan in the gentile and christian.please pray for ministry.God bless you i need your prayer although we can teach them first and send them out for ministry. gentile God bless you richly
July 3, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Lucy
Hi there,
I came to TACF a few years ago when I was really lost in my life. I was prayed for, felt a heaviness leave, and have been passionately persuing Jesus since that day. TACF has taught me so many things….about having a relationship with my father, about his loving heart, and how to talk with him and hear his voice. I have found mentors, friends and wisdom in this place.
Although TACF has given me so many great things, there is something in my spirit that does not sit right. I do not want to “judge what I don’t understand” as one pastor put it, but I do not understand all of the “manifestations of the spirit”. I do not understand fire tunnels, or the purpose of them. If the holy spirit is in all of us, why do we need to zap people for more??
I just want to know God, and follow his plan for my life. I think that’s what we all want. There are so many ways to be lead astray, which is why it says in the bible that “the road is narrow and few ever find it” (I forget what verse this is). I want to know my Lord and I do not want to be deceived, and I have to trust that something in my spirit is saying “alert, alert”. I have to question these things that I am seeing. I have to question the people that have spoken, and the ones that speak and then sit down for book signings. Would Jesus sell books about his father and sign them for people of the church? I have so many things I do not have answers to!
I crave rawness and realness.
I am confused!
July 4, 2010 at 8:05 am
Kim
Lucy,
Thank you so much for commenting and opening your heart up here online. I believe that people can get saved in these ministries despite all the unbiblical practices. And why do I think this..??? The Holy Spirit is warning you. That is why the red flags. What happens is that many just eventually push them aside preferring the elations over the convictions.
What saves you is the belief in Jesus and what He did for you on the cross. That He took your punishment to avert Gods wrath. A commitment to Jesus usually produces a hunger for righteousness and hatred for ones sin. There is a transformation that gives the ability to do this when before the attempt to live by self-help only causes defeat.
The Lord knows your heart and your search for the truth and so He always answers prayer for truth and your seeking of realness.
Satan is very crafty and deceives with fine words and many distractions that will draw you away from his written Word. You will ALWAYS find truth when you open the Bible. TACF probably does have some good teachings but the Bible teaches that a little yeast leavens the whole loaf. This leaven is the cause of the “alert” you are experiencing.
The real Jesus hates false fire and wants you to pick up a cross and follow Him. He does want a relationship with you on His terms. You might try to find a good Bible teaching church in your area. I love expository teaching which is chapter by chapter, verse by verse Bible teaching.
But the Lord will show you your next step. Maybe someone will suggest a church in the area who is reading this.
I will also send Paul Gowdy’s email to you. I believe it is current. Let me know if it is not.
God is good and the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. Sometimes He does it one step at a time and sometimes the scales fall away suddenly.
Many blessings on you Lucy, and you have my prayer for your spiritual growth. I can be reached by the email in the contact section at the top of my site.
July 5, 2010 at 7:16 am
cherylu
Lucy,
I have in the past been a part of a church that was involved very heavily in these same practices and manifestations. I had all of the “red flags” too.
I agree wholeheartedly with what Kim said above–God will lead you into His truth when you genuinely ask Him for it.
For me, the more I compared what was happening around me to what I read in His Word, the more I realized that as I understood the Bible, there was really no Biblical foundation for what was going on. And what was a real eye opener to me was the information that I kept coming across that these manifestations, while not showing up in the Bible, do keep showing up in the New Age movement and in Eastern religions.
Where you are is not an easy place to be, I know. But God is faithful and He will carry you through.
I really want to encourage you to not ignore the “red flags”. Keep up your search for the truth and He will surely confirm it to you.
July 5, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Kim
Not only do these manifestations occur from calling on a false spirit but also from drugs like anti-depressants and alcohol. I know because I started receiving visions from taking the AD Celexa. Satan had found an opening. Red flags and doubts kept me questioning their origin till the cause was discovered.
July 5, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Kim
Lucy,
You may want to read through these comments on the Slaughter of the Sheep blog.
http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/for-sale-the-anointing/#comment-6722
People are coming out of the hyper-charismatic movement and here are a few of their stories.
November 15, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Quotes en verwijzingen Kundalini Warning: Goldmine Media
[…] Gowdy, ‘The Toronto Deception’. Gevonden: https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2007/09/13/the-toronto-deception-by-former-tacf-pastor-paul-gowdy/ Nieuwe site: http://iftruthbeknown.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-toronto-deception/ Mirror: […]
October 3, 2012 at 12:06 am
Helen Landis
Paul Gowdy’s radio interview noted above can be listened to and downloaded at http://archive.org/details/InterviewWithPastorPaulGowdy
September 16, 2013 at 8:07 pm
Mike Oppenheimer – My Testimony | DiscernIt
[…] https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2007/09/13/the-toronto-deception-by-former-tacf-pastor-paul-gowdy/ […]
October 22, 2013 at 11:58 am
Beth Cavete
Thank you, Kim. I am reposting this, if that’s alright with you!
October 22, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Kim
Of course. Please do!
October 22, 2013 at 9:23 pm
Beth Cavete
Reblogged this on Beth Cavete and commented:
This former pastor is referencing a turning point in my life. The home, the sweet church, the family that I had known would never be the same after the introduction of the “Toronto Blessing.” I cannot overstate the loss and destruction in its wake. Not overnight, but in the decades to follow. The church is gone, the people scattered, the family divided. So when I saw this article, from a pastor who may have laid hands on us to impart the “blessing,” or maybe taught a session we heard (though probably not), and his humble repentance and admission of the same convictions I have come to through Scriptures, I was moved with gratitude. If you were a part of the “Toronto Blessing,” or have received an impartation of a spirit from someone who was supposedly offering you a “renewal,”” impartation,” or “anointing” of the Holy Spirit, and you just assumed the spirit you received was from the Lord because it didn’t occur to you otherwise, please read this article and consider what he says. It is not flashy or glamorous, he doesn’t accuse or use hyperbole, and his posture is lowly and humble.
To Mr. Gowdy, I offer my thanks, my forgiveness, and my respect.
September 19, 2016 at 10:23 pm
Naomi
Re: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit – so often we tend to think of this as attributing to the enemy the works that are done by the Spirit of God… But in light of much of the apostasy that we are seeing come forth, could it also be the inverse ie attributing to the Holy Spirit works done by the power of the enemy??
I suggest this because Jesus was accused of blasphemy when the Jews understood Him as attributing the works that He did to God & that He Himself was actually God. Of course, this would have been the case, if He was an imposter, but we know that what He claimed was true. If this principle applies then it seems that what is suggested above fits within the scriptural interpretation. Interested what others may think…..?
February 3, 2017 at 1:17 am
Harold Powell
The kingdom of God is within you, said by Jesus Christ in the New Testament book of John. Jesus is God. He came unto his own… But to anyone who does recieve him, to them he gives the power to become sons of God, brothers of Jesus, first born among many. Not blasphemy. Biblical truth that many Christians seem to be afraid to recieve. We believe from the heart, not the brain. Are you afraid to share in fellowship with the mighty, loving God. That’s why He made you! Wake from your sleep, open your eyes, don’t be afraid to experience Him. He is spirit. Not flesh. Our bodies are His temple inside, where we exist as soul and spirit. Sleep no more! The time is short. Beware that you are not deceived. Words on the page are directions not about God but to know him, in spirit and in truth. These flesh bodies are only our temporary dwelling. When he returns our new bodies will allow us to see into the mirror clearly.until then be still and ” know that I am God” deep prayer, fellowship in the realm of the spirit, where His spirit resides. Do you know that you were made in His image. If you know Jesus Christ, one day you will understand this. The ritcheous are like the dawn, growing brighter till the fullness of day.this world is NOT our home! So be in the world but don’t be OF IT. What price are you willing to pay to serve the holy one, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Are you willing to suffer for His sake, or will you continue to PLAY church. Christ did not come to the world to judge it, that that the world through him might be saved.Total surrender I’d what is required, not just placating, or kautauing. If you know him, he has told you that you will be forgiven of all your sins, and that has has cleansed you with his blood, both from flesh and from his spirit.The leasing pertains to his spirit, washing away our sins. Do you feel worthy now that you know you are cleansed. He gets all the glory, and we get to live with him forever, in bodies just like His. Live it, don’t just say it. You may be the only Bible that someone ever reads.Lead by example, sacrifice your pride, be humble, and he will lift you up. Humility before honor.God IS love, he does not just do love. If He returned today… So He has not come back yet, but remember, He promised that he would. Read revelation chapter 13 to the end. Read about the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, and the Rock that smashed the toes, and all of the kingdoms of this world were destroyed. The New World Order I’d here now. And they are hiding in the worlds governments, corporations, banking system.and secret societies. They won’t advertise this, but there is much to be aware of. The the Trojan horse was a gift, and while they slept, the soldiers took over with stealth.The enemy will never expose himself until it is too late for us to do any thing to stop him. Jesus said, ” The whole world is in the hands of the evil one” your government is owned by the NWO. The whore of Babylon sleeps in the beds of all governments, false religion, the beast and the false prophet are about to present themselves, and when they do, it will be much to late. The mark is about to be available. Be careful that you are not deceived.your present comforts could soon vanish, and this world is about to become a place of turmoil, and soon after, chaos. This is all predicted in Gods word. Do you believe it, or is this just allegory. If you truly believe Gods word, then be honest with yourself. The time will come when the saints will again be persecuted. And the words that warned us of this time, have been available for 2000 years! Is the Bible just a story book ,or do you believe to be true. All of it! Again, be in the world, but not of it. Is your church just a clubhouse. Or is it a spiritual house of prayer. Are you a member of the club, or a faithful servant of the most high God. Then what is said in secret, shout in from the roof tops. For everything hidden will be made known. The pace of the seven hills is a haunt of demons, and satan dwells there. Awake all that slumber and know that the hour of trials have come. You won’t need a bunker to hide in, but Jesus is and will be your only refuge. Look to Him now and begin to fervently pray, to protect you in the day of trial.Do not think, that all of these words are just fantasy. Noah was awake and ready to get in the ark, are you ready, prepared for what is about to happen. A great shaking, and Gods people will be the first to experience it. The Jewish people, Gods chosen, were put on a bed of suffering. Persecuted tremendously. Would we die for our faith in Jesus, or will we take the easy way out, and deny him.Look at history, and the wars. The past suffering. The United States is about to be judged. Do you think that we can escape from the reality of this world system being brought to it’s knees.when the man of sin comes on the stage. Better tremble now and be ready, because when he comes your chance is over. Pray, earnestly for Jesus to prepare you and your loved ones. Soon enough the rotten apples will be separated from the good ones, ang Jesus will take his earth back and reign.we do have a hope. The 7 year tribulation is about to begin. Blessed are those that make it through the coming days. His Lord will come, and we will be rescued.Humility before honor. After Jesus suffered, then He sat down at Gods right hand. Read your Bible as your guide to tell you what God expects you to do in the coming days. Get serious and be awake. Your fellow servant cares about you enough to remind you of this hour of testing. Thank you for reading this, and thank God for all that He has done for you through Jesus!