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Todd Friel Interviews Doug Pagitt of the Emergent Church

 

11/17/07  UPDATE:::: I found someone who transcribed the entire interview…Read it here     http://www.robwillmann.com/blog/2008/07/10/wotm-radio-transcript-todd-friel-interviews-doug-pagitt/

A reader sent me two audio interviews of Doug Pagitt of Solomon’s Porch in Minnesota. Todd Friel is the interviewer from Way of the Master Radio. I have already posted an article about this church here: https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/solomons-porch-an-emerging-church/

I do not want to clump all emergents in one defining category or imply all their theology is like Pagitt’s but all emerging churches seem to be involved in either mysticism, contemplative spirituality, a road back to Rome, universalism, ecumenism, or adding Jesus’ name to another religion.

Please listen to these audios:

 

 

These comments are from YouTube

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Doug Pagitt is fulfilling

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

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Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

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Plato? Cosmos? Dante? Reconciliation with God through the saving blood of Jesus Christ. Everyone outside of that is NOT RECONCILLED. You said it yourself Dougy Fresh!

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Wow, heresy.

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Systematic theology=taking your own views and imposing them on the Bible.
Biblical theology=reading the scriptures, with historical context in mind, and trying to figure out what is being said through it.

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Bless his heart, Todd Friel is a radio host. He did well given the extremely combative, elusive Padgitt. It’s difficult to nail down the Emergent doctrines because they are continuing to evolve.

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These comments are from the below site that also featured these two  interviews:

http://reformedvoices.blogspot.com   BTW i really like this site…..

 Anonymous said…

If I have to wander about in goat skins and starve half to death to preach out against this heresy I will this is a shame and is perverted enough to make me weep. Please hold fast to the bible. Thank you for exposing this garbage. Greg.

10/24/07 6:57 AM

Anonymous said…
Paggit is just another in a long list of heretic kooks who have no understanding of the word of God, for they have not the Holy Spirit to open their blind eyes to see, yet they proclaim to be teachers of men. Unfortunately,there are too many in the church today that are not truly born again, and are willing to swallow ANY teaching that comes down the pike. They love to have their itching ears scratched. It is also unfortunate that some seem to be so complacent and gullable, that they may as well wear a sign around their neck saying, “feed me and burp me when it’s over”. In season and out of season.

10/26/07 8:48 AM

Jason L. said…
DP didn’t surprise me one bit. One of the Po-motivators posters describes it best:”If you don’t agree with my new point of view, then it’s pretty obvious who the divisive one is”http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htmPray for the “sheeple” of these false prophets, that God would deliver them out of those places.

10/26/07 9:28 AM

Vaughan Smith said…
I think it was funny when he almost claimed Luther, Calvin, Whitfield, Spurgeon and Moody.

10/28/07 5:35 PM

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 Roger Oakland in his book “Faith Undone” says.

The emerging church movement cannot be ignored. It has the potential to reshape or redefine Christianity, as many of its leaders claim it will. 

While some say these things are comparable to those that took place during the 16th century reformation, the emerging church reformation is actually a reversal of what occurred in the past.  Rather than pointing the lost to the Word of God and out of an apostate church many are being led to dogmas, traditions, and extrabiblical experiences.

While there will be a remnant that will hold true to the Scriptures, these Bible-believing Christians will be a minority. As has always been the case throughout the history of the body of Christ, persecution and ridicule await those who refuse to accept Kingdom Now and utopian theologies, As the world prepares for the man of peace, those who hold fast to a biblical view of the end times will be seen as trouble-making oddballs and a menace to society and world government.” pgs 226-227.

Alas, the days are coming with lightning speed that the biblical church will no longer be tolerated. I beg of you…hold onto the truth as if your very life depends on it…your eternal life.

 

kim

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Ten people were shown walking the Labyrinth at the Harmony Hill Retreat Center for cancer patients. The picture I copied from the newspaper website is not the same labyrinth they showed in the actual paper. They have three you know. 

A cancer retreat.  What would you be looking for in a retreat if you were dying of cancer?

 This is from the article in Sunday’s newpaper:

Harmony Hill is a nonprofit retreat center with its roots dating back more than 20 years when founder Gretchen Schodde first visited the area.

The center’s 12 acres incorporate healing gardens, labyrinths, walking and hiking trails and beach access into its purpose of helping people find “emotional, spiritual and physical healing in the face of cancer.”

“In 1985 I came to St. Andrews Episcopal Church retreat center for a woman’s retreat, which is next door to Harmony Hill,” Schodde said. “I felt like I was coming home. The idea of creating an educational, recreational and therapeutic center started coming back to me.”

Today the property has been developed to accommodate the various cancer retreats, private parties, yoga lessons and gardening workshops.  Surrounding the buildings are gardens, trails, labyrinths and views of the Olympic Mountains and Hood Canal.

Schodde lives in an apartment on the property, and absorbs the healing powers felt by retreat participants on a daily basis. Six years ago she drew heavily on those experiences when she was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

Schodde underwent treatment and was cancer free for five years, but recently had a reoccurrence. Drawing on the strength of the hundreds of cancer patients who have walked the gardens of Harmony Hill, Schodde is proof of the center’s purpose.

During retreats, yoga and meditation classes are held to help manage stress, a chef prepares vegetarian meals using local organic foods and attendees break into groups facilitated by staff to discuss their experiences.

I am sure this is a wonderful facility.  But..if I were dying of cancer….I would not be walking a labyrinth, or doing yoga. I would be on my knees praying for strength from the Lord to sustain me for His purposes, or I would be found curled up in a chair, reading my favorite passages in Ephesians. 

What was curious was the reference to the church but never mentioned was the strength and courage that comes from walking with the Lord Jesus Christ.

How sad….people at this retreat are possibly facing death……and they seek to walk a labyrinth for healing and comfort.

Zec 10:2

For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain; therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was not a shepherd.

2 Cor 1:3

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort.

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When studying false ministries or New Age religion  I always seem to end up at Genesis 3:5, and there is a reason for this.  It is so applicable in today’s world. We always hear that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Unfortunately Satan’s lies fall under the first two categories. We can look forward to the day when Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed but until that day we will have to stand up to him using God’s word as our armor.

Let’s take a closer look:

Genesis 3:5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (NIV)

Consider these statements from Word of Faith promoters….

Kenneth Copeland “You’re all God. You don’t have a God living in you; you are one.”

Paul Crouch  “I am a little God!…I have his name. I’m one with Him. I’m in covenant relation. I am a little god!. Critics, be gone!” 

Benny Hinn  “When you say I am a Christian, you are saying, I am mashiach in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words, that is a shocking revelation ..May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around.”

It seems as though those who stray too far from the Word of God become unscriptural or twist its meaning.  The phrase “and you will be like God” is spoken by the serpent in the garden of Eden.  Oh, what power the serpent can have over us. Look at Adam and Eve. Here they were living in a virtual paradise, all their needs were met, they communed directly with God, and yet……they were  tempted by the desire to know more…to be like God.

There are three temptations Satan used on Eve to entice her to disobey the commandment of God in Genesis 3:3 which is:

But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

TEMPTATION 1

Gen 3:1    Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

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Hath God Indeed Said?

Notice how the serpent took a commandment from God and changed it into a question.  He asked Eve: “Yea, hath God said..?”or…. Did God really say? Satan created a seed of doubt in Eve’s mind. Now she may have asked herself in response to this question: Why is God withholding this beautiful fruit from me?  Surely, God would not hold back His blessings from me. Did I misunderstand?

TEMPTATION 2

Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Surely you will not die.

Now that the seed of doubt was planted, Satan contradicted God’s word outright, with “surely you will not die”.   Eve’s fear of death was removed by this lie. God said that even if she touched the fruit she would die. When the consequence of disobedience is removed, sin is meaningless. 

TEMPTATION 3

Genesis 3:5  For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

You shall be like God.

After Satan first questioned the Word of God then openly defied it, he then tempted with a new thought. You will be as God. Doesn’t this speak to our pride. That somehow we are in control of our own life and our destiny without Jesus Christ as our Lord. That God’s plan for our lives is not good enough for us. Our way is better than His way.

Can you see the sequence of these three temptations? Satan first used a suggestion to create doubt,  then he defied scripture and then baited the trap with deity of self.

Of course this has been happening since the fall of man but you can see it easily in today’s world.  The questioning of the Bible. It is authentic? Then the rejection of His word or the twisting of it by man’s sorry translations of today. Then the practices of meditation coming into the churches. Meditation invites oneself to go within.  To look within for the answers.

THE ANSWERS ARE NOT WITHIN. THE ANSWERS ARE IN THE HOLY BIBLE. ALL OF THEM. ALL THE ANSWERS FOR HOW TO LIVE OUR LIFE.  THE BIBLE IS OUR OWNER’S MANUAL. CHERISH IT. READ IT. PRAY WITH IT. (whew! sorry for yelling)

The New Age/Emergent Church is coming on strong and this will be the trend till the end of time. Theosophy teaching reveals that their goal is to introduce mystism, especially Buddhism and Hinduism into the West and into the churches.  OUR churches. Yours and mine!!!! And I can assure you it is happening.  The blending of Eastern religion into the West is rampant. Consider how President Bush just warmly received the Dalai Lama.  I have read of goddess worship, labryinths, celtic worship, Taize, Yoga, meditation by contemplative prayer in the evangelican churches all across the country.  These activities have been advertised in my local newspaper in the religion section.  So, when is the New Age? It is NOW. It is here. It is in our churches as I speak…er…write!

There is tremendous power for the Christian who is trying to stay from deception by remembering Genesis.   The three lies of Satan can help us detect deception in the false ministries, false teachings, and new age philosophy of today’s ever increasing sinful ways.

1. Did God really say?   (Here read my book instead * The Bible is irrevelant)

2. You will not die.  (Sin doesn’t exist * there is no hell * reincarnation)

3. You shall be like God.   (God is already within all of us * man is divine * we are one with the universe)

Let’s turn this around so we can find the truth!

We are not like God. We are fallen and sinful.  But when we confess our sin, repent by turning away from sin, and call on Jesus Christ and follow Him as Savior, we can have eternal life. God’s Word is true, inerrant, and available for all who believe in Him. There is only one way to resist the sin that is presented to us on a silver platter day in and day out. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit.

When confronted with their sin, Adam blamed Eve, and then Eve blamed the serpent.  Who are you blaming for your sin or disbelief? Are you puffed-up, full of pride, relying on yourself instead of God? Are you trying to do things your way instead of God’s way? Will you rely on God’s strength instead of your own?

kim

serpent poster from: 

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htm

Motivational Posters for the Emerging Church.

 

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Once I read….  “to understand the book of Revelation you need to study Genesis”. Not much of an explanation was given but I have been thinking about this for a long time. Studying  New Age Enlightenment piqued my interest in looking at verses about “light”.  New Age techniques that involve meditation can take a person into an altered consciousness that may result in seeing an explosion of light.  They often describe a feeling of euphoria or a oneness with the universe along with this experience and believe it to be godly.  Let’s take a look…..

Q. SO WHAT IS THE LIGHT?

A. It is the Word of God.

Psa 119:105 . Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

A. It is Jesus Christ.

Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again into them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jhn 12:46 I am come as a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Q. WHAT DOES THE LIGHT DO?  

A. It exposes evil. 

Jhn 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil

 Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the ligh, lest his deeds should be reproved.

 Jhn 3:21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.  

Q. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE LIGHT?

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath sinned in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

A. The light gives knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Q. WHOSE LIGHT ARE YOU SEEING?

Luke 11:33-34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness. Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.


 A. 2Cr 11:14      And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light…….

 We were discussing Luke 11:33-36 at Bible Study and talked about ways Christians could be light unto the world and how light is used and what does it do? Light shows the way and it exposes what is in the darkness. It exposes sin. Think of a speck of dust in a sunbeam. Suddenly dust and dirt show up in greater detail than we like to admit. What once was a speck is a now a whole lot of dirt when it is under the scrutiny of the Lords eyes. Light is a beacon opening up a pathway to the truth. This light on the pathway also warns of any bumps on the road.We are to expose our light to others, helping them find the way to the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to share the gospel with others and our love of Christ.  

 This prompts me to ask:

Does the light of new age meditation expose sin?

Does the light of new age meditation cause repentance and hunger for the word of God?

Conclusion: If the answers are no, then the New Age enlightenment is not “the light of the world”,  it is the light of  Satan’s counterfeit spirituality.

Now back to Genesis…. 

Genesis 1:3-4 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Genesis 1:14-19And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them by for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

This is what amazes me.  God said “let there be light” on the first day. But He did not create the sun and the moon till the fourth day. God’s own light, reached the formless earth and empty darkness. 

Revelation 21:23-24 says: The city does not need the sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. The nations will walk by its light…

The Lord says He is coming soon! He is the Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and the End. We can see by studying God’s word, that His light shone on the earth in the beginning and and we who live for Him will walk in the glory of His light at the end of time.  The light is Jesus Christ who is bodily coming again to set up his kingdom here on earth and He will rule.

 Is your present life dark and empty? Have you been seeking light from the wrong sources? Read God’s word and pray that its meaning will be illuminated in your heart and mind.  Jesus is the only true light in this world. Will you seek him today?

kim

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Chicken Soup for the  Soul…did you know that the author of these series of books is listed under the New Age section on the Master List from Christian Research Services?

  • UPDATE – This list is no longer available .

 

Have you ever read the shocking book “The Secret”?  Well now you can get the Christian version called “the Secret Things of God” by Dr.  Henry Cloud, a psychologist. More about this later…..

Every month I regularly receive a magazine from a well-known Christian store. I am on their mailing list because I have ordered from them in the past. I have been known to absent-mindedly just toss most of the magazines I get  into the trash.  This time I decided to take a look.

This particular christian book store has quite a few titles and many gift items.  I have purchased CD’s here also.  Now this was about two years and since, my taste in books have definitely changed with discernment and research.

 

Magazine in hand,  I decided to search for bookstore authors featuring Centering Prayer, Church Growth, Contemplative, Emergent, Labyrinth, Mysticism, and Purpose Driven systems.

Here is who I found:

Ken Blanchard

Richard Foster

Tony Jones

Keri Wyatt Kent

Sue Monk Kidd

Dan Kimball

Brennan Manning

Erwin McManus

Don Miller

Beth Moore DVD

John Ortberg

Doug Pagitt

Eugene Peterson

Leonard Sweet

Gary Thomas

Rick Warren*

Robert Webber

Lauren Winner

I only found a few authors on the New Age list online with this particular website, although the New Age authors on the Master List are blatantly New Age.  On the other hand this list will have to be closely watched because contemplative prayer is but one step from metaphysics which is entering an unknown spiritual realm.  One will need to constantly review this portion of the list to inform the reader of any New Age material in their possession.

Brooke Boon (Holy Yoga)

Jack Canfield (They Call Me Dad, Chicken Soup for the Teenage Christian Soul)

Here is a quote from Canfield which will explain why he is in the New Age category. “In USA, we have a Christian fundamentalist movement right now which is threatening other religions and I don’t like it. It’s a religious revival which is intolerant, it creates separation, pain, and is based on ignorance…What works for me is a combination of disciplines: I do yoga, tai chi which is a Chinese martial art and three kinds of medidationvipasana, transcendental and manta (sound) meditation…I meditate every day and I do something with my body every day: yoga or tai chi”.

Now on to the Word-of-Faith, New Apostolic Movement, Kingdom Now, Manifest Sons of God, Latter Rain, False Healing, False Prophets and False Teachers. This is a different story…..

Reinhard Bonnke

Charles Capps

Paul Yongi Cho

Kim Clement*

Kenneth Copeland

Creflo Dollar

Jesse Duplantis

Richard Foster

Francis Frangipane

Marilyn Hickey

Benny Hinn

Bill Hybels

T. D. Jakes

Rick Joyner

Joyce Meyer*

Miles Monroe*

Joel Osteen*

Rod Parsley*

Frederick K.C. Price

Dutch Sheets/Chuck Pierce

Tommy Tenney

C. Peter Wagner

*Authors found in catalog.

So these were all the authors I found being promoted on the Christian website even though they are classified as unfruitful works by the Christian Research Service.

There is another list of contemplative authors on http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com which serves to round off the list. I believe there to be many more. But this a very good start.  New names are sure to be added.

Now back to the featured book on the Christian website …. “the Secret things of God” by Dr. Henry Cloud. apparently Dr. Cloud a psychologist who is interested in spiritual things, was asked to write a “Christian” version of the shocking book “The Secret”. He says “This book is not a Christian argument for or against The Secret. In fact, it sometimes agrees with and sometimes differs with it.” For the record, this book needs to be totally rejected by Christians.

Here is an excerpt telling of how he became a Christian…..

I wandered across the SMU campus and found an empty chapel. It was cold and dark, and I went down to the altar and said a simple prayer. It was something like this: “God…I don’t even know if you are there. But if you are, I need your help. If you help me, I will do anything you tell me to do. Just help me. Find me.” At that point, I knew something had changed.

No — nothing happened. No lights, no burning bush, no feelings of peace. Just empty silence. Nothing on the outside was different, but I knew that inside something had changed. I had just taken a real step of faith…and I knew that if God did not show up in some real way, my life had just gotten a lot worse. I knew that if he did not answer me, I was truly alone in the universe. All my life I’d had the good ol’ American security blanket of “There is a God out there who is nice and loves us.” But now, I had actually stepped out and asked him to do something. (Emphasis mine).

It is not my place to decide if someone is living for the Lord, but where is the repentance? To belong to Christ involves admission of sin, as we are all guilty in God’s eyes. What is telling is that 25 years later he is on an airplane and describing how he usually tells a nosy passenger that he write books about God to shut them up.

Here is a video clip (1.5 min.) of the author and his book:

*UPDATE THIS CLIP IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE. *

This video was  taped at a Women of Faith Conference.  I was once invited to one of these events when it was being promoted in Seattle, but when I researched the speakers, I found them to be “fluffy” with little biblical content. Max Lucado was one of the main speakers and I had been warned of him as a contemplative. I declined the invitation.

Well….. all this to tell you that Christian bookstores are promoting questionable books. You cannot trust many sources these days and I always recommend reading your Bible and pray that the Lord to open His word up to you. My  study group uses the NIV but I use the King James Version and go to the Blue Letter Bible all the time to verify a translation or to see it in Greek or Hebrew. http://www.blueletterbible.org/ Whenever I am in doubt I simply google the author and check the discernment sites.

The time has come that I no longer can go to the religion section in a big-name bookstore and just select something that sounds interesting.  Actually the New Age section is larger than the religion section, but the worst of it lies in the fact that there is a crossover of New Age and Religion titles.  I only buy books that I know tell the truth, and the truth is getting harder to come by.

Zondervan is now owned by Harper Collins, who also publishes “The Satanic Bible” and “The Joy of Gay Sex”.

Need I say more?

8/21/16.  I am adding a link of an excellent article taking a close look at his teachings.

http://www.christiandiscernment.com/Christian%20Discernment/CD%20PDF/Book%20pdf/27%20Cloud%20Changes.pdf

 

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Even though I was a Christian..I was as lukewarm as a leftover glass of yesterdays iced tea still sitting on the coffee table from the previous evening. Melted ice…diluted flavor…dingy glass…bent straw…wilted lemon slice. There was no way that an unbeliever would know that I believed in Jesus Christ. If I was standing in front of a judge would there be enough evidence in my life to convict me of Christianity? NO, sorry lady… you do not have a shred of evidence, no proof whatsoever. This verdict would have been correct.

Then one day I picked up a paperback book on prophecy in a garage sale.  It was fascinating. I had never read anything before about prophecy and no teacher had ever taught Revelations when i was in Sunday School and I don’t ever remember a sermon about the end times. 

This was the first time I had read about the rapture. Reading this material caused at first immense interest. Then the conviction started. Weight upon weight began piling into my heart until no longer could i hold inside the tears of 30 years of unconfessed sin. Down onto floor…this is where i stayed for hours..on my knees..on my back..crosslegged…in prayer, begging forgiveness for the time I had spent idly wandering this shameful world. I had been hit with a powerful realization that my indifference to sin and the Lord Jesus Christ would result in being doomed in the upcoming wrath and judgment.

I rededicated my life to Christ that afternoon. This single episode has been the most significant life-changing event of my life.  I had accepted Christ as a young girl and have always been a believer but the conviction of my guilt shook me to my very core and caused true repentance.

What happened next was a hunger and thirst for God and the Word. I had never experienced this before in my life.  Because I was expressing this hunger for the Word of God, someone invited me to Bible Study Fellowship which is an intense study which will put you into the Word of God daily. Then the time came  for next step. I asked the Lord to expose my sin to me and further convict me of areas in my life that needed to be changed. This was another milestone and yet another corner turned.  If you ever want a fast answer to prayer……ask this:

Psalms 139:23-24  Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Opening your life to the Lord in this way is cleansing and He needs clean vessels for his servants.  

I try to keep myself low, humble.  I am nothing, I am a nobody.  All that I am is what the Lord has done in me, I am nothing in myself.  When I bow down before Him it is in total submission. The Holy Spirit then can do His work and can use me as a vessel.  Everything in my life has to be done His way, in His time, for His Glory and for His purposes only.

We need to confess and repent of our sin constantly.   I believe everyone knows what it is to confess of something, but that they do not really know what repentance truly is. To repent is to turn away from sin. To repent causes a changed reformed life.  If your life has not seriously changed since becoming a Christian then you need to take a good look at your walk with the Lord.

In Revelation 3 the church of Laodicea is admonished.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

I will never in my lifetime be able to express the gratitude I have that the Lord loved me enough to rebuke and chasten me and therefore caused me to repent and change my ways so that I could truly be his servant. Is the life of a servant easy? Not always…but there is nothing more empowering than lowering and humbling yourself before the Lord.

What about you? Is the Lord rebuking and chastening your heart this very moment?  Would you please listen for his voice, read his Word, and completely turn your life over to Him?

kim

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 I should have seen it coming….

Chiropractic – the adjustment of the vertebrae in the spine 

Chakras –  the gateways or centers of spiritual power located on the spinal column

 =  NETWORK CHIROPRACTIC

A reader informed me of a new danger in the health field, Network Chiropractic or Network Spinal Analysis. NSA has evolved from chiropractic and it has some mystical new twists. The spine is now considered “a conduit of consciousness”.  NSA was developed by Dr. Donald Epstein, a chiropractor from Colorado.  Apparently Dr. Epstein discovered   “Spinal Gateways” (hmm…chakras maybe?) running along the spinal cord. Also he discovered that these gateways run from the tailbone up to the bottom of the skull. What else did he discover? He found that the spinal gateways lead to the front part of the brain awakening the brain’s cortex causing profound changes in the body.  Sounds like kundalini serpent power running up the spine through the chakras and enlightenment to me…!! 

Read this article about Network Chiropractic:

During Network Spinal Analysis™ (NSA) care two “healing waves” develop which are unique to Network. One is a breathing wave that releases tension throughout the spine and body and relaxes a person. The other is called a somatopsychic (or body-mind) wave, which is associated with a dolphin type undulation or movement of the spine. These waves are related to a significant increase in wellness and quality of life. Once people experience these Network “healing” waves, they tend to make healthier choices. Suddenly the exercise, diet, supplements, meditation or prayer that may have been resulting in minimal wellness benefits increased in effectiveness. Saying it differently, people in Network care, who experience these waves often double their perceived wellness. As these “healing waves” progress along a person’s spine it revitalizes, energizes, and helps the body to self correct distortions of alignment and posture. They move “stuck energy” and are a resource of new energy and vitality. Vertebra of the spine spontaneously realign as one of the by products.

This video is named Riding the Kundalini Dragon and it shows how the energy is being directed through the body and its effect. The video is not from a network chiropractor but a yoga studio. They are calling this procedure Breath and Touch which serves as an entry point into an altered state in which the mind-body system processes and releases the stress or emotional blocks.

 

While watching a short video from a Network Chiropractor in San Diego  i noticed that the body movement of the patient was exactly the same as those in the yoga studio video.  I do not know how to embed this video so please click on the  below link to compare with the above video.

http://www.bodywisdomhealing.com/BodyWisdomSite/healing_wave_video.htm 

 

******update November 2008 – it looks as though the above video has been removed from it’s site, if i can relocate the video i will fix the link – thanks, kim *********

The rippling effect of the body is also the same as those under kundalini serpent power.  These kundalini manifestations are now being relabeled as “healing waves”. This healing is not of God…is this healing worth the risk? 

I scanned various NAS websites, and the names sounded like this…The New Wave Chiropractic, Ride the River, Esprit Healing Center, Care Wave, Healing Wave…..These offices are sporting a new look, a new name and carry a dangerous spiritual message.

Here is a list of awakened kundalini manifestations from Swami Nityananda (Kundalini Yoga Guru) : trembling, shaking, uncontrolled speaking, weeping/crying, uncontrollable laughing, altered consciousness, elation, feelings of electricity….waves of bliss.

Now i want to relate a list of manifestations from the Pensacola/Toronto outbreaks.  Spasms, tremors, shaking, spontaneous trance states, holy laughter,  energy rushes, and involuntary body movements.

When reading about Network Chiropractic from the EastWestHealth website i read some interesting statements from a patient and a chiropractor.

“When the tension of stored emotional stress is released, people often express it by laughing or crying.  For example, after one patient’s second adjustment she went home and was laughing for two hours..”

“When I get adjusted I feel my mind become completely still, and I feel much more attuned with my heart”

“What always amazes me is that you touch me so gently, like with one fingertip that I can barely feel, and then these powerful waves of energy start traveling up and down my spine and bringing everything into alignment.”

“It always shocks people what profound changes happen from such a light touch. The light touch is like tuning a guitar; it gives the proper vibration for good harmony. Information travels in waves so when we “tune” the spinal cord we can experience our own inner rhythm.”

These two statements are alarming:

“As one persons spine releases, it actually helps release the spines of other people in the room.”

“It’s the phenomenon which researchers have found the most astonishing about Network. They watch Donald Epstein adjust someone and then point to the person on the next table: the second person’s spine is visibly unwinding and he is not even touching them. It’s community healing, and it shows how we are all connected on a very deep level.”

Dr. Epstein has something in common with Rodney Howard-Brown, Benny Hinn and Swami Nityanada; they are all distributors of the power: (kundalini, shakti, fire, anointing) Kundalini awakening can be imparted  by…light touch on the body or forehead, by pointing to someone, or just laying one’s hands on someone.

There are many obvious relationships between Network Chiropractic, Yoga, Eastern Mysticism, and the false spiritual anointings of today.  When we see a chiropractor merely point to a patient, who then starts manifesting with kundalini signs, we need to question where this power is coming from and what is actually happening to the patient. When a doctor or a patient will not question why a second patient automatically manifests without being touched or refers to the undulating spine as “unwinding” from stress….i despair at the deception.

This power is demonic because it is metaphysical in nature, so it is unbiblical for the Christian to participate in this type of activity. It is imperative to understand that the Hindu term  kundalini translates into “serpent power”. Meditation and yoga positions pushes this power at the base of the spine up working its way snake-like, through the chakras or gateways.  In Network Chiropractic the chiropractor has attained the ability to pass this serpent power onto others with only a simple touch.  I cannot begin to tell you how dangerous this is.  Patients who are treated by a Network Chiropractor are in danger of allowing a demonic presence to enter their body.  The “waves of bliss” are deceptive. Satan does not show himself as a demon, he shows himself as an angel of light, deceiving all who will fall into his false spiritual trap.

May the Lord protect his own who may unknowlingly walk into one of these offices for treatment. I have no problem with getting standard adjustments, but whenever a health practitioner begins to talk “spiritually”… immediately question the procedures.

rick-w.jpgrick-w.jpgrick-w.jpg    

Will P.E.A.C.E. really come on the earth before Jesus returns?


Did Jesus say that His church would bring peace to the earth? That concept cannot be found in scripture. What Jesus did say is:

Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36  And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Christians need more discernment not more gurus with humanistic dominionist dreams

It is high time that the Church went back to the basics and studied the scriptures for themselves and stopped being led by the nose by gurus who publish their latest whim.
 

Recently Rick Warren caused an uproar by going to Syria where he was taped praising the antichristian dictator of this terrorist nation. Warren has future plans to go to North Korea. One might wonder how Warren gets access to these rogue nations. Warren is a member of the ultra elite Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).


Could it be that what is being espoused in some evangelical circles are doctrines of men or demons that have been deceptively weaved into the fabric of the many colored garments that are now displayed on the backs of multitudes of Christian dummies?

For the full article go to:

http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/Globel%20Peace%20plan.htm 

To me…one of most important statements in the above article is Warren is a member of the ultra elite Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).”

What is the CFR and why is it important here?  The CFR created in part the Social Gospel, so the fact that Rick Warren has proclaimed to be a member of this elite organization is very significant.

Here is his statement made to Joseph Farah:

“Warren explained that he had also counseled with the National Security Council and the White House, as well as the State Department, before his little courtesy call for a neighbor.”

”In fact,” Warren added, ”as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.”

One of the main goals of  the CFR is to create a gospel that is favorable toward a world government.  There are many in government today and past who are members.  Just to name a few in no particular order…… Eisenhower, Cohen, Feinsten, Mondale, McGovern, Lieberman,  Bentson, Carter, Bush, Clinton, Gore, Powell, McNamara, Rumsfeld,  Rockefeller, Nixon, Albright Humphrey, J.P. Morgan, Gephartd, Gingrich,  Kissinger, Cheney…it goes on and on. Take a look at the list at the below link.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/cfr-members.htm

The public knows what the CFR wants the public to know about the CFR, and nothing more.

Dr. Quigley knew a lot about the behind-the-scenes work of global power because he was a part of that power network for most of his life. In his book, Tragedy and Hope, Quigley states:

The “Hope” in the title of Quigley’s book represents the thousand-year reign of a collectivist one-world society which will be created when the “network” achieves its goal of world government. Quigley believed that the “network” is so powerful at this point that resistance by the common people is futile. Hence, those who resist the schemes of the globalist planners represent the “Tragedy.” By Dr. Quigley’s logic, there is no point in struggling against the noose around our necks, because resistance will merely guarantee strangulation.

According to Dr. Quigley, the Council on Foreign Relations is one of several front organizations set up by the network’s inner circle to advance its schemes. The ultimate goal: a New World Order.


 http://www.infowars.com/print/Sept11/cfr_whitewash_commission.htm

The late Admiral Chester Ward, who resigned from the CFR in disgust after being a member for 16 years, was not exaggerating when he charged that the group’s agenda is to promote “disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government.” The leadership of the group, he said, “is composed of the one-world-global-government ideologists � more respectfully referred to as the organized internationalists.”

  http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/12/social-gospel-60.html

The CFR and the Social Gospel: Part 4

The concept of “peace” was re-defined so that it contained the added meaning of an international new world order by the architects of the United Nations, many of whom were leaders in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). John Foster Dulles led the way in this effort, writing a concept paper entitled “The Problem of Peace in a Dynamic World” presented to the World Conference of Life and Work at Oxford in 1937.

“…Dulles… stated that he looked to Church leaders in particular to guide the world into a peaceful future.” (p. 86)“…[H]e challenged a new generation of pastors to guide their future congregations into the unfamiliar terrain of a new world order as the only sure hope of peace.” (p. 88) [emphases added]

These CFR leaders contrived to manipulate a new Christian ethic and era of “peace” by creating a new doctrinal ideal – that of building the kingdom of God on earth. This doctrine would serve as the foundation upon which international peace could be built.

 

****************

Have you ever heard of Peter Drucker’s 3-legged stool?  The three legs of the stool are…government, business, and churches. These three sectors of society must be joined or partnered to facilitate the New World Order. You can see today how the church is becoming involved with businessess, (starbucks)  using advertising and marketing methods, (bring in the customer) and government (the patriotric movement) on the superficial level.  On a deeper level Peter Drucker’s networking management genius is being implemented into the church and is helping to create a dominion-based kingdom here on earth. 

Who are two of Druckers  prominate protege’s? Rick Warren and Bob Buford.

I am reading the Dec 06 Interchange Postings  Summary for the P.E.A.C.E. Briefing for Mission Agencies, held by the Saddleback PEACE team in Atlanta GA. Here are two statements:

“We must take everything we have learned [about missions] in the past centuries and infuse it in and through the local church.”

 “The specific components of this Summit are still being finalized, but the goal is to bring togther many of the key P.E.A.C.E. players from churches, businessess, agencies, and government for information and interaction.”

The above statement taken from the Saddleback Church Briefing defines exactly the same goal as Drucker’s 3-legged stool, which is the incorporation of the main segments of society into the church.

Let’s take another look at this statement taken from Herescope:

“…[H]e challenged a new generation of pastors to guide their future congregations into the unfamiliar terrain of a new world order as the only sure hope of peace.” (p. 88) [emphases added]

So.. (a CFR leader) is challenging pastors (Rick Warren… a CFR member) to guide future congregations (us) into the  New World Order as the only sure hope of peace.  

Clearly we can see that Rick Warren has been pretty effective to date. He has one of the largest congregations in the United States and he has implemented a huge undertaking with the P.E.A.C.E. Plan. He is using the “40 Days” programs as a way of inserting his agenda  into the churches and pulling them along right into the next phase as they go.

First, bring the people into the congregations by a social and weak gospel message by appealing to their desires instead of their need for the true gospel. Second, “bring together many of the key P.E.A.C.E. players from churches, businessess, agencies, and government for information and interaction”. Third…..?

Will the mega-churches unite? Is the mega-church of today to be part of the one-world church of tomorrow?  Is the true mission of the P.E.A.C.E. plan to feed the poor? I wish it was.  But when looking at the Big Picture…I see how the networking, the blending of the three segments of our society…is creating a church for all mankind… a church with no gospel message…a blending of all other religions with Christiantity…a new universal religious system full of mystic practices. A new religion for the New World Order.  Do you see it? It is happening before our very eyes.

kim

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