My mother told me one day that she had truly enjoyed listening to a preacher on TV. So much had she enjoyed this speaker she was going to order some his DVD”s….
“Okay mom,” I asked, “who is this preacher?”
She replied, ” Charles Stanley from TBN.”
My heart sank. TBN. But I watched one of his broadcasts and it was very good indeed. The problem…the vehicle, the sponsor, the network. It is replete with false teachings.
Later, I ran into a similar situation. A brother blogger sent out a blanket email that a well-known prophecy scholar was selling one his DVD’s on GodTV……GodTV!!!…on an end-time special…..which encluded two (tagged) well-known false prophetic teachers. This email was sent out to many of us because of concern that a leading speaker was lending credence to the other false teachings.
I contacted the prophecy scholar with my concerns about this affliation with GodTV and this was the response from his ministy team.
Thank you for your email. ***** is proclaiming the truth where it would otherwise not be heard. There are two ways to look at this situation. What better way to expose false teaching then (sic) to teach the truth.
Thank you for your email. ***** has not changed his faith in Jesus.
****
But here is truth:
Yet, God’s written word commands,
Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but expose them (Ephesians
5:11).
****
The statement, “What better way to expose false teaching than to teach the truth,” is not biblical when ones teaches right alongside the false. It is the same as endorsement. How does the new or baby Christian know that one teacher on the same show is correct and other incorrect?
*
Reading the following article has helped me deal with the aspect of blending false and true teachings.
*
*
The church’s responsibility before God as the “pillar and support of the truth” is to guard and proclaim the truths of Scripture. Consequently, the most severe crime against God is to mishandle His revelation, thus portraying a false, idolatrous image of Him to the world.
We see this in our own day. For example, the Trinity Broadcast Network (TBN) carries on its programming schedule some orthodox teachers (i.e. Charles Stanley, Adrian Rogers, James Kennedy, etc.), and features also those who are unorthodox: the word/faith movement (Kenneth Copeland, Crefflo Dollar, etc.); or those who deny the Godhead–the Trinity (T.D. Jakes; Phillips, Craig and Dean); and/or those who “huckster the Word of God for profit” in order to generate more money for themselves (most everyone else on their programming schedule). The danger is, when you constantly publicize a mix of the genuine with the counterfeit it blurs the lines of sound doctrine and tends to anaesthetise the listener of discernment. Even those orthodox teachers, as mentioned above, end up unwittingly supporting the very thing they all oppose biblically. The listener enjoying the program most likely sends the lion-share of their support money not to the Bible teacher of the individual program, but to TBN.A And if they have been “ministered to” by that program, they may even call TBN (per their toll free number) for spiritual counsel, prayer and direction. You forfeit on both counts: pragmatically–most of the “love gift” goes to the network; and spiritually–you have placed the members of your listening audience under the spiritual counsel of a phone operator. What would brother Spurgeon be saying about now?
The honest question has to be asked: can a unsound biblical vehicle like that one be spiritually profitable at all even if some of the time they get it right? Don’t be fooled; it’s not just another televsion network you can buy time on to promote your program. It is a well crafted “philosophy of ministry” with a very specific agenda that does not measure up with the Word of God. I agree with Dr. MacArthur when he has said on many occasions, “TBN has done more harm to the gospel than Jerry Springer. For a false representation of God is more damaging than a true display of sin.” I fully agree with his insigthful words. Methodology matters; and just as important, the “who” you partner with in the work of the gospel as well.
The motives, the methods, the messengers, the money and the message. That is why Scripture must be treated with reverence and care because it is the self-revelation of God. It is from Scripture alone that we know who our Lord is and the fullness of His worth and works. We study God’s Word to know our Lord. It is not so that we may have sermons to preach, songs to sing, testimonies to tell, but it is chiefly to know Him. And out of the depth of that knowing to make Him known.
I myself have come to the point that I will not endure any false teachings or anyone who turns a blind eye to it. We are told in scripture that in the last days the church will not hold to sound teachings. How sadly evident this is today.
*****
Also of interest …this about Rick Joyner
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March 21, 2009 at 8:13 pm
cheryl U.
I agree with this article 100%. At the very least, this type of situation can be very confusing to people. It reminds me very much of the “eat the meat, spit out the bones” philosophy in the charismatic church–just in a different context. It is dangerous to the spiritual health of those who have to sort through what is right and what is not and maybe just don’t have the Biblical knowledge or spiritual maturity to do so.
March 22, 2009 at 10:25 am
hopesome
When the blind lead the blind, is becoming evident to us all.
Prophets of doom and gloom seem to be surfacing ready to spread the word of disaster and hell and so we need to see the wheat from the chaff clearly as we journey through deception into discernment. Then the choice of who we believe will be ours and not of those who would have us believe.
March 22, 2009 at 11:21 am
Craig
This whole thing is rather unfortunate. I watch Charles Stanley on PAX (David Jeremiah is also featured on this station) although I know he is also shown on the largely heretical TBN here locally. And, while I agree with most everything Stanley preaches, I disagree with his pro-tithe stance. Truth be told, if one wants to one can find errors and/or points of disagreement with parts of anyone’s theological viewpoints.
With the hard stance of this author, then it would be wrong for me to view Charles Stanley on PAX as well as TBN since PAX is not an exclusively Christian one. Given that, it would appear that we cannot watch ANY Christian TV. So, where do we draw the line?
March 22, 2009 at 1:53 pm
mbaker
I have to agree with Craig. If we Christian’s are going to apply that principle to Godly folks like Charles Stanley, because they use venues which are not 100% out to reach the world with God’s truth, why can’t we apply it to ourselves on these internet blogs, since it’s been estimated that anywhere from 75-90% of the internet is devoted to porn of some type?
I just can’t agree with such generalizations, because it makes Charles Stanley seem complicit in their beliefs. Because American Idol and some of the tacky virtual reality shows are on regular television does that make you feel, as a Christian, that you are being apostate because you might watch some other things on the same network?
I shop at a grocery store owned by Mormons, and a gas station owned by Muslims, Does that make me or you or anyone else necessarily complicit in believe what they believe simply because we are buying their product? No, of course not. It just gives us more of an opportunity for intereaction with non-believers so that we have an opportunity to spread the true word of God, instead of merely preaching to the choir. Jesus Himself, said, “Go into all the world, and preach the gospel.”
if we were to apply your generalization equally, no Christian would be able to get out the gospel message, and instruction on the Christian life, because we would just have to lock ourselves away from the world completely.
And, who knows how many charismatics who watch TBN, and other stations that carry Dr. Stanley,and who do fall for the likes of the false teachers are brought back to the truth by the Godly theology of such men as Charles Stanley? They buy DVD’s from the false prophets in record numbers. Why not encourage folks instead to invest their money in some sound teaching?
In my humble opinion, I think it is completely wrong to categorize a fine man like Charles Stanley, whose church I grew up and got most of my sound Bible teaching from, as only out to sell his DVD’s.
And while I have no bone to pick personally with anyone who blogs here, after having personally known that man (and his motives) for 50 years, I think even suggesting such a thing is a cheap shot.
March 22, 2009 at 2:51 pm
arm5
I know that a lot of ministries on tbn teach false doctrine an we must discern these teachings but I also have been taught not to judge these ministries let God judge if they are truly in error.
March 22, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Craig
arm5,
Sorry, but, I cannot subscribe to your stance of essentially ‘live and let live and let God sort out the details.’ We have the instruction manual, the Bible, that tells us Truth from error. It IS incumbent on us as Christians to point out error to professing Christians. That is how we can protect the newly saved or the not yet saved.
I believe you mistake the message of Jesus in Matthew 7:1-6. We are not to judge hypocritically (using different weights and scales); but, we are to determine sound doctrine and practices by the plumbline of the Scriptures. We are not to judge; i.e. condemn, anyone to hell as that is the Lord’s job and not ours (thankfully!).
March 22, 2009 at 4:07 pm
arm5
Craig, You misunderstood my comment. Sometimes I believe that apologetics does the church more harm that good. Usually you will never win a a person through aplogetics.
March 22, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Craig
arm5,
You may be right about not usually winning a person through apologetics; however, that doesn’t mean you should give up! If the individual you’re talking to refuses to look up the scriptures and properly exegete this you point out, then the onus is on them. Who knows? They may check it out eventually and be won over. It’s sorta like witnessing: we may be one of many who tell a given individual and down the line there’s the last one who is able to convince this person. We can’t give up!
March 22, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Kim
mbaker,
Hey I like Charles Stanley. I had just never seen him before, because i do not watch TBN. He is one of the few bright spots on religious TV. But what if viewers were to automatically reject his teachings because his show followed Benny Hinn?
I don’t watch TV anymore. I get my spiritual teaching from an organized Bible Study, pastor, church and home study.
March 22, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Kim
Hi Craig!!!!
I have missed you.
March 22, 2009 at 6:41 pm
cheryl U.
You know, as I am reading through these comments, I can really see both sides of this argument. I guess I was thinking mostly of someone that might start watching someone like Charles Stanley and think he was great and then watch the program after his, for example, and not have the discernment to know that the second program is teaching something very deceptive. (Note–that is an example only–I have no idea what program comes after his). Or think that because someone like Charles Stanley is good, the rest of the programs aired on that network will be good too. After all, they are all Christian, right?? I think I would have to be very cautious of being on a network like TBN that has such a seemingly high proportion of false teachings for that very reason.
March 22, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Craig
cheryl U.,
Yes, I understand the concern about watching a good program and then assuming all others are theologically as good. Interestingly, I gave my life to Christ while watching the theologically aberrant Rod Parsley on TBN! So, the Holy Spirit is really the one in control.
Let’s not forget that discernment IS a spiritual gift…
March 22, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Kim
Philippians 1:15-18 has been on my mind, which says that the motive of those who preach may be envy, selfish or unsincere, but Paul asks, “What does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.”
Yes, it is the Holy Spirit that is in control. Discernment is a gift but discernment is also learned by studying the scripture. That is why one needs to tests all things against the Word of God. Those who only watch TV are open to deception. It is those who learn about God solely by TV that concern me.
March 22, 2009 at 7:31 pm
cheryl U.
Kim said something very similar to what I was going to here regarding discernment. I have seen so many people that have been Christians for years getting caught up in all kinds of false stuff in the last few years. I don’t know if it is lack of studying the Scripture, willingness to believe new and novel interpretations, deciding that “God is doing a new thing” so Scripture isn’t the final standard, or what. All I know is that discernment seems to be at an all time low out there to an extreme that I find truly frightening. That is probably why I have become so very cautious myself about all of this stuff.
March 22, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Kim
mbaker and others,
I have removed my comment at the end of the article
“To jump on a apostate bandwagon to promote your own DVD is unfathomable.”
This was not in reference to Stanley, but the person on GodTV.. I am sorry if this caused any confusion.
March 22, 2009 at 10:29 pm
mbaker
Kim,
The comments have somehow gotten out of sequence. Did you mean to change them so that the last one shows up first?
I think you are right to want to get your teaching from a good local Bible church. I’m thankful that I have one too. But, some folks can’t get out or live in rural areas where there isn’t one. One of the older ladies I know has to depend on Charles Stanley’s broadcast for her teaching. She wouldn’t miss him, although she has absolutely no use for rest of the televangelists on the so-called Christian channels. So, they do serve some purpose.
However, I certainly agree that the majority of programming on TBN and God-TV are very poor examples of sound teaching. I haven’t watched TBN in years, and GodTV ever.
March 23, 2009 at 8:34 am
Kim
yeah, i have been messing with the comment order. WordPress has added more options, but i am going back to my original settings.
March 23, 2009 at 10:21 am
Jeff
Just sayn hi everyone….: )
March 23, 2009 at 11:13 am
cheryl U.
As I reread this whole article this a.m., I realized that there is more that I should of said than what I did yesterday.
I’m just not at all sure that it is wise for any sound ministry to be on a network like TBN for several more reasons than the one I wrote about yesterday. First of all, TBN is founded by folks that are very much into the third wave, prophetic movement, word of faith, NAR, type of beliefs and way of doing ministry. This is the type of thing they promote the most if I understand things correctly. Therefore, any money that comes from a good ministry to pay for being on the air on this network is being used to support falsehood.
I don’t see the apostles in the new testament coming alongside a group of folks that are known as Christians and teaching falsehood and teaching right along side of them. False doctrine was soundly rebuked and warned against. Also, we are told to avoid teachers that come with a different doctrine and to not even wish someone “good day” that comes and doesn’t bring the doctrine of Jesus. That is probably a stronger situation than what we have here. However, to just come into a situation as one of many when most of the group are teaching falsehood, just doesn’t seem to me to follow the Biblical pattern as I understand it.
March 23, 2009 at 11:16 am
cheryl U.
I should of added that I am not at all questioning the motives of whatever good teachers there are on these networks. It is just that, as I understand things, this may not a wise thing to do.
March 23, 2009 at 12:00 pm
mbaker
I disagree. Christ taught right along side the pharisees in the temple. He went into Samaria, where he met and made a believer out of the woman at the well. He ate with sinners and tax collectors in their homes. He blessed the prostitute who wet his feet with her tears. Despite his disciples protests he did not avoid her, and she became one of His most devoted followers.
So, if we are going to make such sweeping generalizations we would have to apply it to our Lord and Savior as well.
March 23, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Kim
Let’s look at Matthew 23 and how Jesus interacted with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the teachers of the law.
Here are His words to the crowd:
Mat 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Mat 23:5 “Everything they do is done for men to see:
Mat 23:6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
And then this directly to the Pharisees:
Mat 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
Mat 23:16 “Woe to you, blind guides!
Mat 23:17 You blind fools!
Mat 23:33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers!……”
He calls them “hypocrites.” “You snakes”, ” You brood of vipers”, “fools”, “blind”
Maybe those wanting to win converts to Christ should go among the people like Jesus did. He warned the people not to imitate the leaders. The leaders were exalting themselves, they loved to be seen, and watched. It is pretty evident Jesus spoke against the false and pretentious leaders. He was hated for this. He was plotted against because He told the truth.
He did much more than just teach along side the Pharisees, He condemned them.
Mat 23:33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
March 23, 2009 at 2:13 pm
mbaker
Yes, that is certainly true. But the point is, there are opportunities to present God’s truth everywhere. If we are going to call something a Christian broadcast station, then someone who carries Christ’s name, and takes god’s truth seriously, should be making that sure there’s something there that represents true Christianity.
I think TBN and God-TV are a disgrace because of some of the things and people they carry. However, if I were to were tune into something that advertised itself as Christian channel I would hope to hear at least someone there brave enough to go against the lies, and speak the real word of God.
So, if someone in a solid ministry, dedicated to preaching sound biblical truth, is in some way able to counter all the garbage those people promote, and do it right in their own backyard, I would think they are doing a real service to the kingdom of God instead.
March 23, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Kim
This issue has been on my mind for some time, as I really like The Way of the Master. I don’t watch it on TBN but go to the website.
The Bible is clear though, we are to separate ourselves from the world and stay away from the wide gate. I am sure there are good moments at TBN, in fact John MacArthur was interviewed by Kirk Cameron in December. but….
I wonder do the speakers have to sign any paperwork stating that they will not say anything negative about TBN or the other featured speakers?
Also I wonder, if someone does watch a biblical show, how many other shows does the typical viewer watch? There has to be statistics. Since there seem to be more false teaching than true teaching, does the true teaching get lost in the shuffle? Are the biblical teachers only there for show? If someone tunes in only to watch one biblical speaker, what are the chances that this person will begin to watch others. What are the odds here?
Okay i gotta to Bible Study, bye
March 23, 2009 at 5:59 pm
mbaker
I can relate, Kim. I really like John MacArthur too. Like Charles Stanley, he is a long time unflinching Blble preaching pastor. And he hasn’t always been popular among his own peers for it either.
I know these guys probably come under a lot of flak for being on TBN, but I think they are more interested in bringing to the truth to those who most need to hear it. When I got involved in the extreme charismatic bunch in later years, ( even when I knew better!) I was thankful later for those who dared to risk my ire by telling me the truth about the greedy hucksters on TBN, and helping me return to the truth. If it wasn’t for some of them, well …I don’t even like to think where I would be now.
I think we need to pray for the all folks who watch TBN, and others who have gone so far afield from God’s truth, that the few good preachers who are left on these Christian channels will help them return to God’s truth as well.
God bless.
March 23, 2009 at 6:05 pm
cheryl U.
Kim,
You asked, “I wonder do the speakers have to sign any paperwork stating that they will not say anything negative about TBN or the other featured speakers?” I don’t know the answer to that. However, I doubt they would get very far in doing it unless Paul Crouch’s veiwpoints have changed considerably over the years. Here are a couple of quotes that I have read in various places down through the years. Granted, they are from some years ago, so it is possible things have changed. But if not, I wouldn’t think one could say anything negative about TBN or another speaker and stay on TBN for very long at all.
“God, we proclaim death to anything or anyone that will lift a hand against this network and this ministry that belongs to You, God. It is Your work, it is Your idea, it is Your property, it is Your airwaves, it is Your world, and we proclaim death to anything that would stand in the way of God’s great voice of proclamation to the whole world. In the Name of Jesus, and all the people said Amen!
Paul Crouch, TBN 11-7-97
“I think God’s given up on a lot of that old rotten Sanhedrin religious crowd, twice dead, plucked up by the roots. I think they’re damned and on their way to hell and I don’t think there’s any redemption for them…the heresy hunters that want to find a little mote of illegal doctrine in some Christian’s eye and pluck that little mote out of their eye when they’ve got the whole forest in their own lives and in their own eyes. I say to hell with you! Oh hallelujah. Get out of God’s way, quit blocking God’s bridges or God’s gonna shoot you if I don’t! I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there. Don’t even call me. If you want to argue doctrine, if you want to straighten out somebody over here, if you want to criticize Ken Copeland for his preaching on faith, or Dad Hagin. Get out of my life! I don’t even want to talk to you or hear you. I don’t want to see your ugly face! Get out of my face in Jesus’ name.” (Paul Crouch, “Praise-a-thon” broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91)
http://www.cephasministry.com/paul_crouch.html
March 23, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Kim
mbaker,
You are right and thank you for sharing part of your life. I will do some extra praying tonight.
I just get so frustrated with what I see on TV and how people run after the lies instead of the truth. The lies are easier to swallow i guess, and this makes me first sad then angry. Then when the truth is told, it is rejected.
March 24, 2009 at 10:21 am
mbaker
Kim,
Thanks.
My husband and I had a real shock this morning as to how crazy things are getting in general in Christianity. We had to take our vehicle in for service very early this morning. We were eating breakfast at a local restaurant next door to a new church. The church had an expensive digital sign out front, announcing its opening, and then the sign said, “Let’s talk about sex”. We sat there not believing our eyes. My husband said we should go over and talk to their pastor. It turned out the pastor was in Arizona, or so they said, so we talked to someone else there. I told him that I found their sign extremely offensive and that we Christians needed to be talking about Jesus instead. He simply shrugged, and said he would pass the message along to the pastor. Yeah, I’ll bet.
However, we will make the sure the pastor gets our message, because we intend to go meet with him face to face when he gets back. This is the kind of thing I think we need to stand up and be heard for.
Cheryl,
Yes, I’ve heard Paul Crouch say such things and Benny Hinn has said similiar things on TBN as well. He too put a death curse on anyone who didn’t accept what he said. He also said that we Christian were ‘gods’. Yet, they are the ones always criticizing others for ‘touching God’s anointed’. Interesting how they find anything but their own version of the truth threatening, is it not?
Years old, when I did watch TBN, I noticed one day that their prayer line number was always on the bottom of the screen, except for Dr. Stanley’s broadcast. I called and asked them why, and they said it was because Dr. Stanley and paul Crouch didn’t agree with each other’s theology. I don’t know if it’s still that way or not.
I think despite Paul Crouch’s rants, as obsessed as they all the televangelists there are with making money, they would probably run a monkey on TBN as long it had the funds to pay for the air time!
March 24, 2009 at 10:43 am
cheryl U.
mbaker,
I hope you do get to talk to that pastor. Would be interesting to know what he has to say. From what I have been reading on some other blogs out there, advertising sermons on sex has become one of the latest ways to try to get folks to come to your church for some time now. The craziness knows no end.
March 24, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Kim
Here is an article about sex being promoted in the church by Anton Bosch.
If you like, he gives a link so that you can listen to a sermon titled:
Big, Honk’n, Holy Sex… from the Church by the Glades….good grief.
http://www.antonbosch.org/Articles/English%202008/Worse%20than%20Sodom.html
March 25, 2009 at 4:10 pm
mbaker
Kim,
That was a good article by Anton Bosch. I agree completely with his solutions, although maybe not the exact order he put them in.
This is a time of great opportunity for Christians. Since the prosperity gospel, as preached on TBN and God-TV, has been disproved by this recession, it’s time we Christians come forth with something real that people can count on in Jesus Christ.
March 29, 2009 at 11:32 am
TimH
Yet, God’s written word commands, Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but expose them (Ephesians 5:11).
It’s ben a long time since I have been here. I had a very strong reaction to this article in that I also disagree with the idea that CS should not be on TBN.
I think TBN is terrible and I don’t get Godtv, so praise God for that. But I believe somebody has got to be on these broadcasts to preach truth to the masses when they are hearing lies and misrepresentation of scripture.
With that note, I believe that if you read commentaries on the verse used in the Steve Camp article within the context of Ephesian 5, scripture used may be out of context here. Seems that there was sin in the camp in areas of sexual immorality and covetousness and the author is “fortifying us against the sins of uncleanness, etc., the apostle urges several arguments, and prescribes several remedies….
Matthew Henry suggest…
Consider that these are sins which shut persons out of heaven: For this you know, etc., v. 5. They knew it, being informed of it by the Christian religion. By a covetous man some understand a lewd lascivious libertine, who indulges himself in those vile lusts which were accounted the certain marks of a heathen and an idolater. Others understand it in the common acceptation of the word; and such a man is an idolater because there is spiritual idolatry in the love of this world. As the epicure makes a god of his belly, so the covetous man makes a god of his money, sets those affectations upon it, and places that hope, confidence, and delight, in worldly good, which should be reserved for God only. He serves mammon instead of God.
If a person has an opportunity to preach the truth of the gospel, of repentence, holiness, etc, on a station that is junk anyway, and if that station is stupid enough to let him do so, then go for it. Did it ever occur that maybe GOD just opened this door for CS to be there on that station just for that reason?
I disagree… with Steve Camp.
By the way MBAKER…
my daughter had a baby girl yesterday March 28th @ 10:03am, 8 pd 2 oz, 21 inches and has all 10 toes and fingers. All are well. It was a difficult birth at the end of it because the shoulders got stuck on the pubic bone but they were able to get her (Hannah Joy) turned and then there she was. A miracle within the miracle of birth.
March 29, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Kim
I decided to look at the KJV of this verse and this is how it reads.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
So it uses the word “reprove” G1651 instead of expose.
Here is the Greek definition of reprove from the concordance which helps us understand what we are to do with works of darkness, as children of light.
1) to convict, refute, confute
a) generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
b) by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2) to find fault with, correct
a) by word
1) to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
2) to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
b) by deed
1) to chasten, to punish
Tim, congratulations on the birth of your granddaughter Hannah Joy. I pray for health and blessings from the Lord.
March 29, 2009 at 4:16 pm
TimH
Thank you Kim on the response to the birth of my grand daughter.
Yes my Greek to English Index-Lexicon says rebuke; exposed; rebuked; convict; convict of guilt; convicted; convinced that is a sinner; correct; expose; prove guilty; rebukes; refute; show fault. These are the different ways that the word is used in the Greek.
You and will agree to disagree and I still am not convinced the verse Eph 5:11 applys to the situation of Charles Stanley being on TBS.
This chapter is speaking of… Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Is CS in sexual immorality or impurity or greed by being on TBN?
Is there…Eph 5:4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
Don’t see it yet by CS by being on this station (TBN).
Eph 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a man is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
Don’t be partners with who?
Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
And who and why are they disobedient?
Back to vs 3, because they were not walking as they were to be walking as Christians. They were reverting to their old ways of not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Eph 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
What are the fruitless deed of darkness according to this section of scripture?
I believe the author is refering back to these verses…
Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Eph 5:4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. Eph 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a man is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
I lived in Southern California when TBN was first started. I remember the first program that was televised and I have to tell you that what I watched was the word of God in truth. It started out right and people like Charles Stanley, Adrian Rogers, James Kennedy, etc. are the ones that were and should be on TBS since the beginning. I saw the PTL station (Jim Bakker fiasco) and I believe that the Lord took the “original intent”, if you will, from there and placed it on the west coast for a proper TV network. I believe that those who run that station actually know the truth, but they have been so deceived and in deception that they strayed from it terribly.
But I would rather see one good preacher speaking the truth in the darkness so that the light will indeed expose the darkness and thereby some being saved.
My debate is not about TBS, and I am not in actual disagreement with the post. I think it is terrible to watch and I don’t watch it except a few times to see the likes of Charles Stanley, Michael Youseff and the others mentioned. Usually I can get Charles Stanley on a secular TV station or, yes, the internet. Or I’ll record the show only and watch it later. I do not believe they are in sin for being there and I just don’t agree with the interpretation of the use of Eph 5 what is being offered in the post.
From another commentary I have…
“Not only do Christians steer clear of evil practices and pursuits; they have a responsibility to show up by a contrasting way of life the nature of the world around them and its culpability. So expose is explained by 13 <exposed by the light ie Christians as children of light in the world cast an illuminating beam into dark cornors of human society where evil practices are conducted in the darkness of secrecy (a veiled hint at immoral and magical pursuits in the pagan world?). Christian influence has a reproving effect as Christ’s light shines ‘not merely “to display”, but to “show to be evil”, so that we do best to keep to the rendering “to correct”, especially as deeds and doers are closely related’
“evil practices and pursuits” I believe the commentator is refering to vs4, 5 and 6 of Ephesians.
Wouldn’t this be what those who are on there (Charles Stanley, other orthodox preachers and ministries) are doing, exposing the evil by preaching the truth? Even if it is on a deceived station?
March 29, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Kim
Tim, you make many good points and I thank you for such well-written thoughts. I always like what you have to say.
I have nothing against the orthodox preachers teaching on TBN. I have only recently heard of Charles Stanley, for i do not watch TV. This article is not really about him though.
But i am concerned about the two verses:
Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
When these two verses are not separated and reversed in order they have the needed impact. We are not to be partners with those who deceive with empty words. Whenever the word therefore is used, it connects to the previous verse.
This is one more excerpt from Camp’s article.
Yes, orthodox teaches do teach the truth. But are they rebuking the false teachers? Should they? Would they be allowed to stay on TBN if they did? Are they partnering with them?
But God is good. Those who are truly seeking the truth will find it. Many have told me that they have been blessed by something on TBN. But I still do not watch it, nor recommend it. A good Bible study is much better.
People need to read their Bibles from front to back to learn what God has to teach them through the power of the Holy Spirit. Only knowing what the Word says, can one keep from false teachings. What if the orthodox teachers are eventually removed? What if they start to slowly change their teachings into a false and weak gospel?
March 29, 2009 at 11:18 pm
TimH
Yes, orthodox teaches do teach the truth. But are they rebuking the false teachers? Should they? Would they be allowed to stay on TBN if they did? Are they partnering with them?
Actually, interesting enough, Charles Stanley’s sermon from last week was on False Teachers. He did not mention names but he did give a pretty good, well I thought it was REALLY good, sermon on the subject. I would imagine that, in all truthfulness, nobody of the false camp listened to it anyway, so it wouldn’t have affected them. BUT, others did listen, those who would be deceived, and hopefully, they heard and maybe even some were saved from it. And this was done on TBN and he is still there.
That’s why I think these “false teachers” really know the truth, but they probably think when the likes of Paul Washer, Charles Stanley, Michael Youseff, John Piper, John McArthur and many others speak about false teachers, they couldn’t be talking about the NAR boys. After all, they preach Jesus also!
Arg!
March 31, 2009 at 10:02 am
mbaker
Tim,
Congratulations! After knowing the sorrow of the miscarriage your daughter went through two years ago, we are absolutely overjoyed to hear this news! Please hug her and Hannah Joy for us.
God bless you and yours, and may this child live up to her fine name in the coming years.
Kim,
I hope you will listen to some of CS’s sermons. I think you will approve of him.
March 31, 2009 at 10:08 pm
TimH
Mbaker,
Thank you,
I will hug her for sure….
Go here and see our little angel,
http://faith-defenders.com/forum/index.php?topic=273.msg2914#msg2914