I should have seen it coming….
Chiropractic – the adjustment of the vertebrae in the spine
Chakras – the gateways or centers of spiritual power located on the spinal column
= NETWORK CHIROPRACTIC
A reader informed me of a new danger in the health field, Network Chiropractic or Network Spinal Analysis. NSA has evolved from chiropractic and it has some mystical new twists. The spine is now considered “a conduit of consciousness”. NSA was developed by Dr. Donald Epstein, a chiropractor from Colorado. Apparently Dr. Epstein discovered “Spinal Gateways” (hmm…chakras maybe?) running along the spinal cord. Also he discovered that these gateways run from the tailbone up to the bottom of the skull. What else did he discover? He found that the spinal gateways lead to the front part of the brain awakening the brain’s cortex causing profound changes in the body. Sounds like kundalini serpent power running up the spine through the chakras and enlightenment to me…!!
Read this article about Network Chiropractic:
During Network Spinal Analysis™ (NSA) care two “healing waves” develop which are unique to Network. One is a breathing wave that releases tension throughout the spine and body and relaxes a person. The other is called a somatopsychic (or body-mind) wave, which is associated with a dolphin type undulation or movement of the spine. These waves are related to a significant increase in wellness and quality of life. Once people experience these Network “healing” waves, they tend to make healthier choices. Suddenly the exercise, diet, supplements, meditation or prayer that may have been resulting in minimal wellness benefits increased in effectiveness. Saying it differently, people in Network care, who experience these waves often double their perceived wellness. As these “healing waves” progress along a person’s spine it revitalizes, energizes, and helps the body to self correct distortions of alignment and posture. They move “stuck energy” and are a resource of new energy and vitality. Vertebra of the spine spontaneously realign as one of the by products.
This video is named Riding the Kundalini Dragon and it shows how the energy is being directed through the body and its effect. The video is not from a network chiropractor but a yoga studio. They are calling this procedure Breath and Touch which serves as an entry point into an altered state in which the mind-body system processes and releases the stress or emotional blocks.
While watching a short video from a Network Chiropractor in San Diego i noticed that the body movement of the patient was exactly the same as those in the yoga studio video. I do not know how to embed this video so please click on the below link to compare with the above video.
http://www.bodywisdomhealing.com/BodyWisdomSite/healing_wave_video.htm
******update November 2008 – it looks as though the above video has been removed from it’s site, if i can relocate the video i will fix the link – thanks, kim *********
The rippling effect of the body is also the same as those under kundalini serpent power. These kundalini manifestations are now being relabeled as “healing waves”. This healing is not of God…is this healing worth the risk?
I scanned various NAS websites, and the names sounded like this…The New Wave Chiropractic, Ride the River, Esprit Healing Center, Care Wave, Healing Wave…..These offices are sporting a new look, a new name and carry a dangerous spiritual message.
Here is a list of awakened kundalini manifestations from Swami Nityananda (Kundalini Yoga Guru) : trembling, shaking, uncontrolled speaking, weeping/crying, uncontrollable laughing, altered consciousness, elation, feelings of electricity….waves of bliss.
Now i want to relate a list of manifestations from the Pensacola/Toronto outbreaks. Spasms, tremors, shaking, spontaneous trance states, holy laughter, energy rushes, and involuntary body movements.
When reading about Network Chiropractic from the EastWestHealth website i read some interesting statements from a patient and a chiropractor.
“When the tension of stored emotional stress is released, people often express it by laughing or crying. For example, after one patient’s second adjustment she went home and was laughing for two hours..”
“When I get adjusted I feel my mind become completely still, and I feel much more attuned with my heart”
“What always amazes me is that you touch me so gently, like with one fingertip that I can barely feel, and then these powerful waves of energy start traveling up and down my spine and bringing everything into alignment.”
“It always shocks people what profound changes happen from such a light touch. The light touch is like tuning a guitar; it gives the proper vibration for good harmony. Information travels in waves so when we “tune” the spinal cord we can experience our own inner rhythm.”
These two statements are alarming:
“As one persons spine releases, it actually helps release the spines of other people in the room.”
“It’s the phenomenon which researchers have found the most astonishing about Network. They watch Donald Epstein adjust someone and then point to the person on the next table: the second person’s spine is visibly unwinding and he is not even touching them. It’s community healing, and it shows how we are all connected on a very deep level.”
Dr. Epstein has something in common with Rodney Howard-Brown, Benny Hinn and Swami Nityanada; they are all distributors of the power: (kundalini, shakti, fire, anointing) Kundalini awakening can be imparted by…light touch on the body or forehead, by pointing to someone, or just laying one’s hands on someone.
There are many obvious relationships between Network Chiropractic, Yoga, Eastern Mysticism, and the false spiritual anointings of today. When we see a chiropractor merely point to a patient, who then starts manifesting with kundalini signs, we need to question where this power is coming from and what is actually happening to the patient. When a doctor or a patient will not question why a second patient automatically manifests without being touched or refers to the undulating spine as “unwinding” from stress….i despair at the deception.
This power is demonic because it is metaphysical in nature, so it is unbiblical for the Christian to participate in this type of activity. It is imperative to understand that the Hindu term kundalini translates into “serpent power”. Meditation and yoga positions pushes this power at the base of the spine up working its way snake-like, through the chakras or gateways. In Network Chiropractic the chiropractor has attained the ability to pass this serpent power onto others with only a simple touch. I cannot begin to tell you how dangerous this is. Patients who are treated by a Network Chiropractor are in danger of allowing a demonic presence to enter their body. The “waves of bliss” are deceptive. Satan does not show himself as a demon, he shows himself as an angel of light, deceiving all who will fall into his false spiritual trap.
May the Lord protect his own who may unknowlingly walk into one of these offices for treatment. I have no problem with getting standard adjustments, but whenever a health practitioner begins to talk “spiritually”… immediately question the procedures.
DiscernIt 
178 comments
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February 1, 2008 at 12:58 am
Andrew Boswell
I don’t even know where to begin… First off, with the billions of people in the world and the possibility of millions of different ‘religions,’ it is nothing but pure arrogance to think that your ‘system of beliefs’ is the one and only ‘right way.’ I am a Reiki Master/Teacher, I will soon graduate from Chiropractic school, and I am also an Ordained Minister, as was my father and my grandfather. So I can speak from many different sides, and form an agreement by all sides. There is nothing satanic about NSA, and there is nothing satanic about Reiki. In fact, the founder of Reiki desired to undertand the healing ways of Jesus Christ and to understand how a person could heal by “the laying-on of hands.” The chakra system and the art of energy-work are more purely based in true overall healing than modern medicine and psychology I will assure you. I have seen and I have worked with people who get up from the table and are healed in all senses of the word. There is no satanic anything involved. These practitioners act out of pure love of life, and pure love of whatever it is that controls this universe. There is no judgement, there is only hope and love, and a gift of healing that they have practiced for years in order to help people live life more abundantly. Those literalists that have written here, do we even need to go into the hundreds of discrepancies in the Bible and the fact that more people have been killed in the name of the christian ‘God.’ than for any other cause in the history of the world??? A little lesson related to this topic “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite.” NSA practitioners (since that is the original post subject) are helping people everyday to live a better life, and they are living a life of service to humanity (and the actions of one doctor makes a bad doctor, not a bad profession). Thanks, -Andy
February 1, 2008 at 2:39 am
Kim
You are an ordained Minister? Have you ever read Deuteronomy 18:9-12?
9. When thou art come into the land which the Lord they God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:
Do you know what familiar spirits are? They are demons. 1/3 of the angels were cast down from heavens unto earth because they rebelled against God.
I once went to a massage therapist because of an auto accident. The therapy was recommended by my chiropractor treating me for whiplash.
Unknown to me she was going to “try something on me” she said. But what happened was that she received an electric shock when she tried the Reiki treatment on me. I was not aware of Reiki at that time, so the Lord protected me. “I won’t try that again” she said.
I find the origin of Reiki troubling.
Reiki was developed by a Japanese Buddhist, Dr. Mikau Usai. The word translates REI (universe), KI (life-energy). The two Japanese characters together express the unification of body and soul. It is pronounced ray’-kee.
After fasting for 21 days on Mt. Kurama in 1914, Usai was “enlightened”. He said “When i fasted i touched an intense energy and in a mysterious manner i was inspired (I received the reiki energy).”
I like what Marcia Montenegro says about reiki and Jesus.
“Jesus being the Son of God, did not need a technique, but healed because His nature was the same as God’s (which is what being the ”Son of God” signifies), and God is the Healer and Giver of Life. Jesus’ miracles of healing were not just to cure, however, but were a sign that He was the promised Messiah.”
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_reiki1.html
Also an ordained minister should believe in the Bible and know that scripture is God-breathed.
People like to omit the last verse of the Judging Others passage found in Matthew.
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
This is saying that first check yourself to see if you have the same sin and remove it, then you can continue..yourself seeing clearly.
I can say without a doubt that i am not practicing, advocating or using metaphysics and so i feel that i can warn others.
Just because something works doesn’t mean it is good. This is pragmatism. If you are imparting (divination) an unknown energy kundalini (serpent power) to your clients…i am worried for them.
February 1, 2008 at 11:20 pm
chiropractic las vegas
Interesting debate going on here.
February 2, 2008 at 10:12 am
livingjourney
Just to add to this a bit… When I first became a Christian, this happened along with several friends at the same time, we were all in the same homegroup and the leader of this group was an ordained minister. Anyway, we met regularly, and it was a very spiritual group. This particular minister said that I need some prayer, and perhaps some cleansing for deliverance. I was all for it.
I won’t go into details but it was almost like a horror movie what happened to me that night. I was a mess! Things were happening that should not have happened and I was totally freaked out. He started praying and literally, I had electric shocks that could be seen that were coming from my head to his hands that hovered around my head. Door, and windows that were dead locked opened and closed by themselves, and wind rushed in, or out, it was hard to tell!
Anyway, I went to church thinking that I was all cleansed from the spiritual dimension that I had been playing around with when I was involved in the occult. When I got to church, another pastor had heard of our meetings, and was alarmed because the ordained minister was also a spiritualist and had been excommunicated from the church. We had no idea.
This pastor at the end of the church service approached me, and said I still needed prayer, and I was sooooo scared because what had happened previously was still fresh in my mind. I thought to myself how can he pray for me in the church foyer, with all these people and children around. I told him that if he was to pray, it wouldn’t be pretty, as I think that there would be some sort of spiritual activity. He assured me that there would be none of this, and that the Lord will do it peacefully and without any bother at all.
So, I agreed to this, although I still had my doubts as to how this would pan out. He started to pray, and just quietly told the spirits to leave and that they had no place to reside as my body could not be divided because the wonderful Holy Spirit was within me, or words to that effect. And that was that! Nothing! Nothing but peace, since that day! That has been close to 30 years ago now. I was set free once and for all!
From that day on I knew you could not mix pure biblical Christianity with occultic eastern mysticism. I recognise occultism as soon as I see it, as I have been there and done that and have now discerned through the Grace of God anything that does not line up with the Word that we have been given through the providence of God is not God’s way but a wannabe god who fell many ages ago! He is a liar and he seduces as he appears to be an angel of light.
Thanks for listening/reading!
Sincerely
Vee
February 3, 2008 at 1:50 am
Kim
Vee,
Wow, thank you for sharing this story with us. It sounds as though the spiritualist had a strong connection to occult evil energy. People just don’t know what they are fooling around with, thinking they possess special powers, are enlightened or want to be enlightened, when all the time they are playing with the dark side of the demon world.
I could see why you would recognise occultism immediately. You were fortunate to be approached and prayed for so quickly by a legitimate pastor.
This confirms to me that the prayer of a holy person and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is mightier than the false angel of light.
1 John 4:4
You dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world (satan).
February 4, 2008 at 7:18 am
Mary
Vee,
What a great testimony. How encouraging. You have such a ministry opportunity to those who don’t understand what they are getting in to.
I was wondering this. It’s kind of dumb but… in high school many years (ahem) ago, we had a new age faith healer come to speak to our class on healing. I don’t remember much about what he said but I was searching at the time. He asked if anyone wanted him to lay hands on them after class and pray for healing. I did. I asked him (ok this is really dumb) I asked him to lay hands on me for healing of my impacted wisdom teeth. He looked at me like “are you kidding me?” But he did anyway and I felt a warm energy run through me. Then I felt this peace come over me like a fog which lasted for about two days. Now that I am a believer I know this to be a false peace and perhaps a false spirit but I didn’t know that at the time. So my question is this- if that is a spirit does it linger? I don’t know if that makes sense but I encountered alot of spiritual warfare (for other reasons as well) when I became a believer and I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on it.
February 4, 2008 at 7:25 am
Mary
BTW,
For any new agers out there reading this: I also experienced the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The real spirit of Jesus Christ. Big, big, difference from the false peace that I experienced from the laying on of hands from the faith healer. The false peace was not anchored in anything!!! No truth. Just warm fuzzies. And it didn’t last. I was still afraid of hell and death. When I had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, I knew this to be Jesus Christ who gave me a peace beyond words which was anchored in Truth because He is truth.
February 4, 2008 at 9:31 am
Kim
Wow Mary, what a strange experience to have in high school.
I believe that a Christian can be oppressed by a spirit. Can one linger? Maybe…. not sure. I wondered the same thing when i used a ouija board when i was a teenager. (i was a Christian then, but still was able to make contact with a familiar spirit) A friend assured me that the spirits can tempt and oppress especially when they are invited and and ouija board is an invitation. If you asked him to lay hands on you this might be considered an invitation.
But repenting of these actions, and testing should take care of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if you had to use biblical spiritual warfare to end it. Some of the stories i have read of those coming out of charismatic excesses and/or new age spiritualism seem to vary a bit, but the power of Holy Spirit takes over for the true believer.
Hope to hear about others who have had similar experiences…..
February 4, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Mary
Kim,
Thanks. Yes it is amazing isn’t it that a new ager can come in to a school and teach a class yet a christian can’t present their views. I also remember a teacher teaching us the bennefits of the pyramid and how it provides energy for healing. This was in the late 70’s so even then the new age was getting into the classroom.
February 5, 2008 at 4:10 am
jb
Kim,
I am chiropractor by education and have a practice here in CO. I also run another biz, but that doesn’t relate to this. I am also the jeff who has posted on other post (out of not wanting to draw attention to possible debates, but I come clear).
What the “minister” chiropractor said… I have been aroung the block and use to teach yoga, meditation, etc. it is very spiritual/mystic and is not of God. When I came to the Lord several years ago, I put those things behind me instantly. My practice didn’t slow (which was good) or anything, but there was a peace in my mind during my day while treating others. I began praying for people before/during/after treatments. I prayed with other believers, and it was great.
Anyway that’s my 2cents worth.
And God bless all of you!
February 5, 2008 at 4:31 am
Kim
Thank you for your comment. I am sure that others will find this helpful when they are renouncing methods that are not of God.
It sounds like you have a wonderful practice. Your patients are very blessed.
February 5, 2008 at 7:14 am
Chrissy
My husband got me into this book called Anchor in the Spirit, makes the spiritual life attainable and the rewards glorious. It’s not just religious hogwash, it makes sense, “holy” sense. I find It’s presented in a ‘take it or leave it’ manner, it is not righteous or self glorifying, it seems to include anyone and everyone with an open mind.
February 5, 2008 at 10:45 am
Kim
hmmm…Here is what it says about this author…
“For over 30-years Ms. Reid has studied, researched, and practiced as a Metaphysical, Truth, Religious practitioner, to acquire wisdom, knowledge, experience and expertise in the field.”
Anything metaphysical is a crossover into a spiritual realm that is more like divination. Divination is a way to acquire occult knowledge.
The Bible forbids this in Deuteronomy 18:9-12 “Let no one be found among you who…practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable unto the Lord..”
The Lord considers this detestable not “holy”.
Also revealing is the title..”Anchor in the Spirit as God Beings, More than Mere Humans”
Almost all paranormal/metaphysical encounters give the person a feeling of divinity.
You don’t find the title Anchor in the Spirit as God Beings a bit self-glorifying? Just curious…
February 13, 2008 at 12:08 pm
John
Real chiropractic is based on an understanding of Gods design. There is nothing about real chiropractic. It is simply making mechanical adjustments to the spine to let the nerves work. Honest chiropractors have had a lot of obsticles against them. True chiropractic is a healing gift from God. As with any good and true thing it will come under spiritual attack from darkness. Network “chiropractic” surfaced from the pit to spiritually check the healing ministry of true chiropractic. This Network chiropractors frequently sound in their philosophy like normal chiropractors. This is the deception. The bottom line is that we need to know a spirit by it’s fruits. What are the fruits of regular chiropractic. Well they are a doctor pressing on someones spine and the person getting better from many problems. No strange manifestations. Now look at the fruits of Network “chiropractic”. “Chiropractor” doing strange unfamiliar things that are not logical and do not appear to operate in the natural and a patient manifesting all kinds of disorganized patterns of movement and emotions. Trust me when I say that if you go to a spiritually clean chiropractor you will discern nothing strange or unfamilar in spirit. If you go to a Network “chiropractor” you will feel like oil and water in the spirit world. In fact the chiropractors that have posted on this board are being manipulated to do so by the unseen world. I have observed that the Network people try to get to young impressionable chiropractic students before they really understand what chiropractic is. They then go through chiropractic college snickering at the doctors teaching them real chiropractic. They have an attitude that they will just play along with what they are taught in school so they can graduate and practice Network. Fortunately the vast majority of chiropractic colleges will have nothing to do with Network. My observation is that the Network “chiropractors” office is more like a spiritual “health spa” than a doctors office. With people indulging in all kinds of “spiritual opium”. It is a very selfish thing. I have also observed that there are a lot of real chiropractors that go on mission trips to third world countries like Haiti. Sick people line up for days waiting for help. The chiros put themselves in real danger to do this. You do not see any Network chiropractors doing this. One Network guy I know of advertised “treat yourself to Network care”. Now I ask you what doctor that was practicing real needed health care would consider it a “treat”. These people are pushing spiritual dope. More dangerous than heroin or cocaine. Of course Benny Hinn is more evil because he does it in the name of God. But the two are very similar. There are a lot of honest chiropractors that are ashamed about this stuff but honestly do not know what to do. What is going on in chiropractic is just a reflection of another battle in the spirit. Ultimately it can only be won on spiritual ground.
February 13, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Kim
Thank you so much for your insights. What have you have stated is a very important warning for the Body of Christ.
February 13, 2008 at 11:24 pm
John
A Network patients actual testimony:
“In theory a lot of this sounds as if it would be helpful. Reality can be something very different. The following is my personal experience and opinion of NSA. Please be aware this is not a wonderful healing tool for everyone. I started out thinking it is helpful and then ended up in a horrible state of depression and body agitation along with now over 3 months of insomnia that none of the breathing exercises will help. I have tried 2 different practitioners and find myself getting more and more manipulated into trying to stick with it as this is all part of some great process that will help you in the end. Any pain or difficulty is blamed on my “resistance”. My body is constantly being stretched in NSA and then I have swelling and intense pain. If I say anything they tell me it is because I am not feeling my feelings and I need to feel more. I am not a person who is unaware of what I am feeling and where I feel it in my body so this reasoning gets ridiculous. Then in level 2 any pain depression insomnia etc that has occurred gets amplified. You can trust that happens and they try to have you breath through it. I did the breathing religiously it never helped me. They are messing with your Central Nervous System and they do not have as much research and validation as to what is actually happening to the brain and body as they try to make it sound. Trying to get information has been impossible and trying to contact NSA headquarters on their information line is useless. I have written and called numerous times trying to get information and get nothing back. The practitioners I have gone to are anything but what I would consider “higher brain” compassionate people. One lets her child play with video games that kill people in gory ways After seeing this 6 or 7 times red flags started going off. (This practitioner herself is a recipient of NSA for 10 years or more.). I switched practitioners and am getting no where but lots of guilt about how the universe will find another way to get my attention like maybe a death of a loved one ect. if I don’t follow through. I tried this practitioner for 3 months now and after hearing this I really started questioning NSA. She also has been receiving NSA for about 10 years. Personally It seems they have subtle and not so subtle ways of continually manipulating people into keep coming when they are obviously causing things within your Central Nervous System that are anything but healing. Another great scheme is to have you come in more rather then less when there is swelling or any other concerns such as depression insomnia etc. This has only intensified all of the above for me. Another manipulation to watch for is their system of trying to re-label everything into a healing opportunity. There is a great fondness for causing struggle and frustration and pain. Also the financial cost of going 2-3 times a week is enormous. And if you buy into all the manipulations of how to be a more compassionate “Higher Brain” functioning human you never stop going. After you finish going 3 times a week at lower levels -You go at least 2-3 times a month depending on how committed you “truly” are to being a more evolved spiritual enlightened human. There also seems to be a cult like atmosphere around Donny Epstein the founder. Whenever I questioned anything there was a stiff taken back approach given to me and I was told I was so wrong and “lower brain” fight or flight thinking of me to not completely adore his work. Then there is the pushing about how much research has been done. However, that research has been questioned as to its validity. For one thing, they may have some studies and research but they definitely do not know enough about how NSA affects a large enough segment of the human population in our Central Nervous System and as I understand it there are other problems with the research and how valid it actually is. All I can say is be aware and watch out for all the mind and spiritual manipulation that goes on. They also claim it is not specific to any spiritual belief. I have not found that to be true. The whole philosophy behind this has an agenda to it. It definitely has a harshness to it that is not anything like the spiritual peace that one can truly learn from. If you are into harshness and looking on the dark side of things and yourself and dwelling there to “learn” then this is the place for you. If you like getting periodic highs and peace from release of tension that NSA builds up in your body and mind then you are in the right place. If you like being manipulated, led and losing your own sense of power and capabilities for inner healing, then you are in the right place. I was told that I needed to lose all sense of creativity and joy in my life that insomnia, depression and pain are what I need to heal. I have to wonder if this is a way to get people to take on their belief system-Anyone that isn’t getting sleep and is in pain is ripe for not being able to think clear and take things as truth that they normally would not. The practitioners insisted that my body put me in these states of continued depression insomnia, and pain because that is what I need. Personally I found none of NSA to be healing except for an induced fleeting sense of peace it has been nothing but a nightmare. Also when I thought about leaving I was warned how my body will not tolerate me quitting and it will feel good at first but then get worse. Of course they tell you none of this when they start you off on just feeling some peace in level 1. All I can say is be very aware. “
February 15, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Mary
John,
I wish to take issue with something here you said. You refer to chiropractors as doctors. I believe this to be misleading. If you are walking in Christ’s light, you must be honest about this. A chiropractor is not an MD. He is not a doctor of medicine.
February 15, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Mary
I don’t really want to bring this up because I don’t want to start an arguement, and I guess you could say I am biased. But since this topic has reserfaced I feel the need to put in my 2 cents and will hopefully go away.
I work for neurologists. Here is a statistic that you might want to consider before going to a chiropractor:
“1 in 20,000 spinal manipulations lead to carotid or vertebral dissections”.
This was quoted to me by an attending neurologist that I work for. Whether you think he is biased is something you have to decide. But I felt like I had to pass this along.
God Bless.
February 16, 2008 at 12:31 pm
John
Mary;
A chiropractor is not a doctor of medicine. That is true. It does not mean that a chiropractor is not a doctor. The chiropractor just uses a different modality of treatment than an MD. Doctors of chiropractic are highly educated. They actually go to school more hours than an MD. They learn out of the same textbooks. They dissect bodies. They learn x ray, EKG, MRI, Electroconductivity studies, all standard physical exams. They do bloodwork, examine eyes, ears , nose, throat with the same instruments as any other physician. Some chiropractic interns do rotations in MD hospitals. Doctors of chiropractic treat patients with more than just manipulation. They also can utilize traditional physical therapy modalities like ultrasound, electrical stimulation, traction and lasers. You can verify the education of a chiropractic physician by Searching “National University of the Health Sciences” on the internet and review what a DC has to do to get their degree. When I practiced chiropractic most of my patients were referred by medical doctors. I was offered staff privileges at the local MD hospital. Many patients referred to be by MDs had problems that the MD thought were comming from the spine but were really do to things like cancer, bone tumors, vascular problems. The MD missed all those things but I found them and the patients life was saved. Try and convince any of those people that a chiropracor is not a doctor. I remember one time a lady falling and dislocating her knee. There were two MDs there. They were lost and wanted to call an ambulance. I calmly walked over and reduced the dislocation. I am sure that those MDs and the lady that was able to walk would consider me a doctor.
Mary. You are being deceived. The attending neurolosist you work with is either deliberately lying or is highly misinformed. Every statistical study ever done on cervical manipulation indicated the possibility of a arterial dissection at between one in five MILLION to one in one MILLION. The National College of Chiropractic Clinics saw five hundred thousand patients over a 15 year period without one single arterial dissection. I performed about one humdred and fifty thousand cervical manipulations over a twenty year period and NEVER caused one. Also many arterial problems that have happened have been at the hands of a non chiropractor. Someone with little or no training. Along the same lines. Do you know what the statistics are for people dying from advil and similar drugs are? It is very common relative to statistics. You are infinitaly more in danger of dying from taking Advil than seeing a chiropractor. As a matter of fact the drive in your car to the chiropractor is more dangerous than the chiropractic visit.
On a spiritual note. You will find MANY more chiropractors that are christian BELIEVERS than medical doctors. Most medical doctors are “scientific reductionists”. They believe that life is the product of simple chemical and physical reactions. The very foundation of chiropractic philosophy is that the UNIVERSE IS INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED AND MAINTAINED. Your medical doctors for the most part believe that man and animals are relatives. That is why they test their chemicals on animals. Why don’t you go out and ask a hundred chiropractors if they believe in evolution and then ask a hundred MDs. You will see just where the MDs stand. This does not mean that MDs do not help people. Of course they do.
Mary. Have you ever BEEN to a good chiropractor? Ever talked to many chiropractic patients that got no results from medicine but were fixed with chiropractic?
When Jesus was alive there were no medical doctors. Medicine did not exist. There was no such thing as a drug. There were however DOCTORS. These PHYSICIANS treated there patient with natural plants and guess what else. They used manipulation. As a matter of fact the father of modern medicine thousands of years ago Hippocraties treated his patients with manipulation. It is a historical fact. Have you got any idea how many people have had eyesight, hearing, fertility problems, back pain and other problems restored by Chiropractic?
Mary. You have chosen to cross a line. You have believed this “neurologist” and not questioned his authority. He in essence has manipulated you to submit. He has outright lied to you. I can prove it. Just check out the real statistics. There is no doubt that medicine helps people many times. But MDs have conditioned people to rely on medication for almost all ills. People many times operate in FEAR that they are going to get a disorder and turn to drugs without need. When pharmacology is abused it is sorcery. The two are intimately tied together. People have been conditioned to rely on a false god. A pill which is designed by man using “science”. A molecule that does not even exist in Gods created universe. It is OK to use medication but not to elevate it to god status.
I am sorry you are operating in fear. You are being manipulated in the spirit world. I know what your “neurologist” told you about chiropractic but what does God tell His people about it. What do they discern? I discer that many MDs want to be God. And some dislike chiropractic doctors because they do not want any other “gods” before them. Mds tried to put osteopathic doctors out of business years ago because they were threatened.
The bottom line is that either I am operating in true authority or your neurologist is. One of us has truth. The other one is a deceiver. Next time you are sick try an honest chiropractor and then discern the spirit.
February 16, 2008 at 12:47 pm
John
In the post above I was typing fast and made a critical error and it needs correction. I said:
“When Jesus was alive there were no medical doctors.”
I should have said “when Jesus walked the earth”
Because Jesus is alive.
Sorry
February 16, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Mary
John,
I don’t have time today to answer you in detail. But you said:
“I am sorry you are operating in fear. You are being manipulated in the spirit world. ”
Come on John. Don’t you think you are over spiritualizing this? I am not operating in fear. And no this not about the spiritual world. This is not spiritual warfare. Personally I will listen to someone who is from Hopkins before I listen to a chiropractor. That’s my oppinion. I don’t think everyone in medicine is corrupt. I know several christian doctors.
February 17, 2008 at 1:34 am
NWProdigal
This is quite an enlightening discussion I’m seeing here.
I had an acquaintance who was a chiropractor for many years. He recently passed away under very suspicious circumstance, which appeared to indicate suicide. He had been very depressed and despondent for months in spite of the fact he was attending a popular church. I never heard him profess a particular faith in Jesus, but it was only later that I realized he was probably inlvolved in this Reiki treatment.
The reason I bring this up is because this man had everything going for him. He was recently engaged to a wonderful woman, had two oustanding young sons and was well known and respected in the community.
I realize this is supposition on my part, but at his funeral, patients and friends were talking about how he’d come back from Asia very excited about a new treatment and was trying it out on many patients with chronic pain. They were emphatically impressed with this newfound technique, and while the term Reiki never came up, I thought it odd that this so closely coiincided with his subsequent despondency.
He was eulogized as a caring and loving person who only wanted to help others, but hardly seemed to be a person who would become depressed or despairing of life. I just think these new age techniques are truly “not of this world” and if they are from some generalized “universal force” I think a good dose of Godly fear and skepticism are in order. How, I would ask, is God’s name and Christ Jesus glorified by such an ambiguous source?
February 17, 2008 at 2:21 am
John
“Come on John. Don’t you think you are over spiritualizing this? I am not operating in fear. And no this not about the spiritual world. This is not spiritual warfare.” Mary, I understand you have difficulty with this. If you cannot accept it by faith let me try and put it in more tangible terms.
All operations in the physical are tied intimately to spirit. The fundamental construction of the physical universe it’self has been created and is maintained by the unseen.
First there was nothing but God. Then God’s word was spoken and there was light. Light is a form of energy. Before there was a material universe there was energy. Not some weird new age “energy” but simple energy as defined in the laws of physics.
Remember in school. We were all taught that matter is what makes up the physical universe. Rocks, trees, metal and flesh are all matter. Matter in turn is made up of molecules. Molecules in turn are made up of atoms. Now do you remember what makes up an atom? People used to think that atoms were made up of little smaller peices of matter. But science found that to be wrong. It was found that atoms are made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. These tiny elements that make up matter are not material at all. They are units of energy. Yes, pure energy. All matter is made up of energy. Now there are different types of matter. For example Gold is a type of matter. Silver is another type of matter as is sulpher or zinc. But these different types of matter have one thing in common. They are all made up of energy. What makes Gold different from silver is the number of energy units and how they are arranged and oranized (how they orbit). So matter is energy organized into different designs. All the “scientists” agree on this. All the people with all the letters after their names and the stripes and colors on there gowns at their Harvard University graduation. But is you ask these scholars a simple question. So you are saying these energy units are organized into matter I am confused as to what organizes the energy. What makes the design? What causes the protons, neutrons and electron units to group together and orbit in these defined patterns? The “scientist” will look back at you with a very confused look. They may go off on some non sensical diatribe that is just circular logic. They may even try and convince you that it is all randam and chance. They will be stumped. The bottom line is that the atom is organized. Now there is an undenaible universal fact. You cannot have organization without intelligence. If you saw a house, a car, a watch for example you would as the “scientists” would never conclude that it was not intelligently designed. That they just appeared without an intelligent designer. Now a leaf, a tree, a rock, all things, a cell, your body are a lot more complex than a TV or a watch. Yet “science” proclaims that there is no intelligent designer. There are a handful of “scientists” that believe in intelligent design but they are rejected by the scientific community and soon lose their credibility. The very essence of the universe of which man is a part is constantly maintained and was created by an intelligent designer. Not only did the designer create the universe but the designer maintains the universe. If the protons, neutron and electrons are not constantly MAINTAINED in organization they will fall apart and the universe will revert back to primary elemental energy. Hence we see the proof of the LIVING GOD.
“Personally I will listen to someone who is from Hopkins before I listen to a chiropractor.”
Many years ago there were men who proclaimed great knowledge about the scriptures. They ornamented themselves and if they were decorated enough could sit in higher chairs than the others. If you were not a part of their group society was conditioned that you could not be an authority on the scriptures no matter how much you did know. They became very uneasy when a simple man not of their group came along and the people listened to him. They felt he was not entitled to have the knowledge. Unfortunately for the men in the high chairs the man withj no title spoke with great authority and could not be rebuked. He had no degree from “Hopkins” I am sure that ther were people then that continued to believe that the men in the high chairs were still right despite what the man without the titles said. Even if he was right.
It is ashame Mary that you are so fixed in your thinking that you would put your faith and trust in someone just because of the colors on their robes. It is sadder still that the person with the colorful robe believes that they really are entitled to be the only holder of the truth. For the most part even the people with the colorful robes will submit to true authority when it is recognized. For example many top medical schools study radiology out of a famous textbook written by yes, a chiropractor. It is the finest book in the field and they know that. He teaches medical doctors at the University of Colorado. For years he has been recognized with awards as the best teacher in the school in his area. I am sure those medical students know full well that he is a doctor and remember that it was a chiropractic doctor that gave them the knowledge to save a life by finding cancer on an x ray. Why don’t you ask them if they would trust a guy from “Hopkins” or the chiropractor that taught them?
“I don’t think everyone in medicine is corrupt.”
I am not sure I ever said anything like that. There are corrupt people in all fields. “Corrupt” implies deliberatly deceiving and I do not think that is very common among MDs. More often they are genuine but misled.
“I know several christian doctors.”
There are definately christian medical doctors. Some call themselves christian and go to a church that is comfortable to them and supports them no matter what they believe. There are abortionists that are “christians” . How may medial doctors do you find in a spirit filled church? There are some but it is very rare. And I am sure that they have gone throug conflicts in there heart about what is believed by virtually all science and all medicine. But they practice becuse they know they are helping people and are able to in some way come to a point of balance between what they were taught and what they know to be true. Be advised that I never have said that medical care is not sometimes needed. I have simply revealed it’s limitations and potential spiritual pitfall.
Here is a humerous video that may help illustrate some of what I said. For your referance an “allopath” is a traditional MD . You may need to cut and paste the link and turn up your sound.
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/townofallopath.htm
February 20, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Lindsay
I just wanted to tell you thank you for all the information. I visited a NC yesterday for the first time. I came and went with a very strange feeling. I have been a strong believer for many years and what the DC was saying just did not sit well with me.
I thought Network Care was just a network of regular chiropractors. I did not realize there was mysticism involved. I left wondering and praying about whether or not this guy was for real. He even claimed to be a Christian. I stayed awake most of the night thining/praying about it and when I would fall asleep I would wake up moving in a way that was unfamiliar to me. I felt like I was slithering. It made me very uneasy. I got up early and prayed God would show me the truth. I tried to do a little research but found nothing on Network Care and then finally came across your site. Thank you for allowing the Lord to use you to confirm what I already knew to be true. I will be calling this “doctor” today to attempt to get my money back and discontinue my sessions.
February 20, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Kim
Lindsay….
Praise God….Thank you for writing and letting others about your experience. I pray that your prayers have eliminated the impartation you received by seeing a NC. If the sensations do not stop you may want to pray with other believers or pray with a pastor about this.
God Bless you….
February 20, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Lindsay
Thank you Kim. I actually feel fine today. I cried quite a bit this morning mainly out of thanksgiving that the Lord gave me discernent almost immediately upon entering the office. I have been blasting the praise music and praying all morning. 🙂 This sounds strange, but I truly believe that yesterday was one of the most obvious encounters that I have had with satanic forces. Blatant, yet very subtle, sickening and beautiful all at the same time. I know this movement is a new tactic Satan is using to lure both believer and unbeliever. On a different note of discernment, have you checked out the new woman that Oprah is supporting? I would encourage you to log on to Oprah.com and take a look at the portion for Marlene Williamson. I would be interested to hear your take on that. It seems to fall in line with some of what I have learned about Network only she twists scripture in a way that is almost undetectable unless you know the scriptures quite well. Again, thank you so much.
February 20, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Kim
Oh Yes…i am very familiar with what Oprah is promoting. A Course in Miracles is a book from the pit of hell.
Read about it here:
https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2007/12/03/oprah-to-teach-course-on-new-age-christ/
February 20, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Mary
John, You said:
“For example Gold is a type of matter. Funny the Bible says He is Spirit.
The rest of what you said really is of no interest to me. I think John You are not dealing with reality.
Good Day
February 20, 2008 at 11:56 pm
John
Mary. You are trying to manipulate reality because you do not hold truth. READ MY WORDS. I said GOLD is matter. I did not say GOD was matter
“The rest of what you said really is of no interest to me. I think John You are not dealing with reality.”
Mary. I could not really care if what I have to say is of interest to you. Ultimally I fear that you are so blinded that you would never accept what I say no matter what I say. You would always try and twist my words like you did with GOLD and GOD. But let me tell you it was a really obvious attempt. Can’t you do better than that? I am saying what I say for God’s sheep. So they can see clearly. As far as reality goes. Now you take the really cheap shot. The last resort if you will. “Lock him up. He is crazy” That is what they do to people who pursue spiritual things in communist China. Face it Mary. You move in no authority. You are a paper tiger. A house of cards. They may appear real but in fact knowledge and discernment prove otherwise. Ultimately I feel very very sorry for you.
I mean you have not even given a resonable case for what you believe. Do you kno why? It is because you have FAITH in your neurologist. Guess what Mary. He has therefore become an idol for you. Has God spoken to you personally and told you that is OK to have total faith in this man? Can you honestly say that. I fear at this point you are so deceived that even if you do ask God about it you may be deceived by demonic forces that mimick God’s spirit. I am not saying that is true but I fear that it may well be. You accused me of saying God was Matter. That was a horrible thing to do. It would make me a blasphemer and be a sign for believers that I was a false teacher. Really a nasty shot Mary. Really, really nasty. In the name of Jesus I reject your disception and the false spirit that is moving it. I pray that the spirit moving you will come out and you will see clearly and discontinue to be a tool for darkness.
February 21, 2008 at 1:29 am
Elise
I started to view this and had to stop after they started moving. I have an article on this website about my deliverance. I had a deliverance (exorcism light – ?) in June of 2007 that had me screaming out demons for over three hours. One that came out of me started me out hissing like a snake – literally – I couldn’t stop hissing. I was bent over in the church pew and my body was going back and forth like a snake just hissing away until it finally was expelled. I must say I had been practicing a kind of kundalini type of yoga meditation when I first became aware of an extremely dark and evil presence that was with me – that all lead to this deliverance. I so wish people would realize that there really are demons out there. This chiropractic method is definitely demonic – I could see it in her movements. Notice the chiropractors eyes – I can see a darkeness – he looks dead inside or like he’s controlled – very subtle and spooky but its there. The devil will make so many people, including him, think this is just a good healthy thing. What’s wonderful is this website making people aware !! Thank you Kim!
February 21, 2008 at 3:35 am
Kim
John,
I think Mary misunderstood you.
Your reaction is way over the top and spiteful.
February 21, 2008 at 5:33 am
Kim
I had to go to Matthew and read about humility. This is something that all Christians need to deal with, myself included. When Jesus overheard the disciples discussing who was the greatest among them, they were probably surprised when He selected none of them. Instead He brought forth a child and told his disciples that they must become like a child to enter the kingdom of heaven. A child doesn’t know it all, is submissive and teachable. In God’s way…the first will be last the last, first. I have to ask myself sometimes..who do i serve? The desire of our heart should be to serve the Lord our God.
February 22, 2008 at 6:12 am
The Aardvark
Wow. This is VERY similar to the Happy Hunters (Charles and Frances Hunter) How to Heal seminars from the 80’s,
only the “adjustments” were accomplished through prayer with the “patient” standing.
There were no serpent-like writhings, but rather gentle and increasing rotations of the torso providing a “Holy Ghost alignment”.
The ministry method was arrived at with a charismatic chiropractor.
MY back was healed through this “method”, which was Jesus-centered, but as I have gotten older, and noted the lack of this methodology in the gospels or the book of Acts, well, it seems a tad fast and loose to me.
Thanks for your fine work on this site. Feel free to contact me if need be.
February 22, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Mary
John,
My apologies for thinking you said God instead of Gold.
It was not my intention to get into an arguement. I have stated my objections. Now people can pause and consider whether they really want a “doctor” to manipulate their spine. Reason alown tells me that is a dangerous thing to do.
Any one who is interested in reading up on the connections between chiropratic care and carotid/vertebral artery dissections can read these articles:
Hufnagel A, et al Stroke following chiropractic manipulation of the cervical spine. J Neurol 1999;246:683-688.
Vickers A, Zollman C. The manipulative therapies: osteopathy and chiropractic. BMJ 1999;319:1176-1179.
Schievink WI, et al. Cervical artery dissections associated with chiropractic manipulation of the neck:
the importance of preexisting arterial disease and injury. J Neurol 1996;243:Suppl 2:S92-S92.abstract
February 23, 2008 at 4:12 am
Late breaking news | Treat Your Back Pain
[…] Comment on New Age <b>Chiropractic</b> by Mary […]
February 23, 2008 at 4:54 am
John
Every time you take an advil you are in more danger of dying than with a carvical manipulation. You are statisticaly in far more danger of dying driving your car to the market than getting manipulated. Instilling fear in people is a tool used as a weapon against chiropractors. It is a very dark thing to do. Plus there has only been one type of manipulation that has ever had this happen. If you are really terrified irrationally then you can ask your chiropractor not to use that method. They can use a different one. I think you have a deep hate for chiropractors. Furthermore this hate was put into you. You do not know the first thing about what a chiropractor does. You really don’t. In your heart you know you don’t. You are being positioned on the chessboard to prevent healing to happen in people from chiropractic. You are so stubborn. A chiropractor is a legal doctor yet you put doctor in quotes to abuse. No matter what I or anybody said to you (except your icon, the neurologist). Now as far as the stroke issue. Here are the real facts. You and anyone else need to watch this video.
Also as far as not being a doctor. The DC gets more education than an MD. DC school is more hours than MD. Here is what a DC schools classes are.
http://www.nuhs.edu/show.asp?durki=508
And if my response earlier was too harsh or spiteful I am sorry.
February 23, 2008 at 7:35 am
Mary
John,
I’ve heard all the alternative medicine tripe before. Your not helping your cause any by insulting me or ignoring medical research.
February 23, 2008 at 8:12 am
John
I have nothing against medical research. But you made a statement that was untrue. You twist facts. I can easily disprove what you say and have. You are not being forthright. You are being a bigot. You take a very very rare thing and blow it up. I would not do that to a medical doctor. I know a family with a child that had a vaccination. 30 minutes after the vaccine the kid went into convusions, started screaming and died in his mothers arms. You do not hear me preaching against vaccines. By the way a lot more people suffer vaccine injury than any problem with chiropractic. Yet I hold my toungue. You see my friend I move in truth. Because of that you can form no weapon against me. I have preached no alternative medicine “tripe” or ignored medical research. You come up with these “one liners” because you really do not have a clue what you are talking about. But just know that know that if you or your family were sick and had no answers I would try and help you. Years ago Charlie Mayo fo the famouse Mayo Clinic needed help. His wife had a medically incurable pathology. Finally he as a last resort took his wife to the famous Palmer College of Chiropractic Clinic. Well guess what? She was healed.
You can see the story here.
http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/18/13/07.html
And you can check out God’s hand in chiropractic. Chrisrian Chiropractors Association.
http://www.christianchiropractors.org/
February 23, 2008 at 8:21 am
Kim
Okay you guys…to your corners……
This is not an article about chiro vs. medicine. I have huge issues with both.
rriiinnngggg…
next round…..
Oh yeah no name calling please!!!!! (ex..bigot)
February 23, 2008 at 11:03 am
John
Kim
No you have me interested. What are your huge issues with medicine and chiropractic. Are they in the spiritual or the physical??
You can’t just leave me hanging.
February 23, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Kim
I’ll be brief. Medicine…vaccinces and pharmaceuticals.
Chiropractic….The cost of an adjustment…allowing unchristian metaphysics to enter the profession without protest.
Are you the same John who left a comment November 12th?
February 24, 2008 at 12:54 am
John
No. I am the John that is having the “discussion” with Mary. As far as allowing unchristian metaphysical stuff into the profession. Do not think that there is no protest. There is. But you have to understand when you tell most people the dangers of spiritual darkness they do not understand what you are talking about. They just do not operate in that world. And also this spirit is very very strong. The only comparison I can think of is the country of Haiti. Haiti is full of voodoo and very strong demonic spirits. There are spirit filled believers in Haiti. In fact there are many. But still the battle continues. There is spiritual protest by christian chiropractors against this spirit. The spirit of New Age Chiropractic is obvious. But remember the misuse of drugs and vaccines has strong spiritual underpinnings as well. There consequences are less obvious. Perhaps even more deceptive. Pharmacy and sorcery are intimately tied. As far as the cost of adjustment you are partially correct. But also if you look you will be led to a chiro that is not to expensive. At one point I got fed up and just told people there was a donation box in the hall and they could donate what they wanted. When I did charge a fee I charged 38 dollors. For this I spent 30 minutes with you and included massage and physical therapy along with the adjustment. I only sawatients a couple of times then told them they could call when needed.
February 24, 2008 at 8:48 am
Mary
Alternative medicine has some good things to say. But it’s like the phoney prophetic charismatic church… alot of grandiose prophesies and not a stitch of proof to back it up. And we wait and wait for something to be proven true.
Maybe some day you will be proven right ,John. But in the mean time I’ll listen to my medical doctor for the most part. And just to make it clear it is not just little ole me and one doctor who has issues with chiropractors.
If that were true there wouldn’t be so much published material that disagrees with what you said John. But to each his own. I just hate how alternative medicine tries to make themselves sound like they are the definitive christian answer to what ails you. As I said I have stated what I felt I needed to say. Let the readers decide for themselves.
Oh, the bell has rung? back to my corner…taking off my gloves. Sorry to get your gander up John. You can have the last word.
No hard feelings. Good night and God Bless.
February 24, 2008 at 11:47 pm
John
God Bless you too to Mary….
And just remember if you get really sick and an MD can’t help remember the story of Dr. Mayo’s wife. The door of the Inn is always open no matter who you are.
February 25, 2008 at 12:29 am
Mary
Thanks. This mornings sermon was a bit convicting. Loving each other and all. Sorry for my bad behavior.
If you ever have need of a neurologist, I’ll point you in the right direction. 🙂
February 25, 2008 at 12:39 am
John
sorry about my bad behavior too.
July 8, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Kane Mantyla
My heart breaks as beautiful healing is allowed back into our world, with fear attempting to stamp it out. Fear is the tool of the enemy.
I am the son of the founders of Vineyard Christian Fellowship, not that it brings any glory to me, because all glory is reserved for God, and whatever blessings I am given, do I humbly accept, but rather to provide a background of a strong Christian upbringing.
I will let the Bible speak for itself.
Matt 12:24-26
24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Healing is the work of God, destruction is the work of the devil.
One more passage seems prudent here.
Matt 23:15
15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
May the light of God illuminate all of the darkness that the fear may transform into strength and courage…the true purpose of God’s children.
Blessings.
July 8, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Kane Mantyla
Mary,
Blessed are those that have not seen and yet believe.
You are created in the image of God.
You are a co-creator. Your need for proof is disempowering yourself.
If your belief is pure and innocent like a child, God will keep you from harm.
Even perceived harm is only the refining fire.
Unless ye become like a child…
July 8, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Lee
You are a co-creator. Your need for proof is disempowering yourself.
Please show me this in scripture.
July 8, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Kane Mantyla
Genesis 1:27
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
July 8, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Layla
I am the son of the founders of Vineyard Christian Fellowship
Which Vineyard?
July 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Mary B.
Hi Kane,
Actually I admit that my experiences with Chiropractic care are nill. I’ve never been to one. John gave me some history of the chiropractic profession and I stand corrected. John helped me to see that not all chiropractors are equally educated and one should do their homework before you choose one. I am really sorry for degrading the entire profession when I have no experience with it and for implying that the negative press encompassses the entire profession.
July 8, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Lee
Kane,
I’m assuming you are a chiropractor. I’ve been to and respect those who practice real chiropractic medicine.
Regarding being co-creators:
You are taking that scripture well beyond its meaning. Taking your thesis to its logical conclusion then we all should have all the power of God; that is, we should be able to create from nothing. We should be able to make new heavens, new planets etcetera. Have you done this? Do you know anyone who has? I Know the answer. It is ‘no.’ We are not Gods or gods.
July 8, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Kane Mantyla
Hi Layla and Mary.
Nice to have you.
It was the Anaheim Vineyard that came out of Yorba Linda Friends Christian Church and was headed by John Wimber.
July 8, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Kane Mantyla
lee wrote:
“You are taking that scripture well beyond its meaning. Taking your thesis to its logical conclusion then we all should have all the power of God; that is, we should be able to create from nothing. We should be able to make new heavens, new planets etcetera. Have you done this? Do you know anyone who has? I Know the answer. It is ‘no.’ We are not Gods or gods”
How can you believe that we are created in the image of God without the power of God. With faith, you can move mountains. This has been stripped from us as we have fallen. I do not rest on logic as it has tremendous limits. Does a child wield the full power of the parent? The child is given power as the child learns responsibility for this power. Jesus was sent so that we wouldn’t have to die when learning to take up our birthright. Remember, heavy is the head that wears the crown.
July 8, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Kane Mantyla
I am not a chiropractor.
I run a business providing floatation.
This is the essence of stillness.
That which your blog judges as occult.
We receive many people here who have
become disillusioned with the medical system
and have found healing.
You can claim what you like, but I stand firm
in that God is soooo good, that we will find him
wherever we seek.
Blessings on you work and may it be anointed with
the spirit of the living God.
July 8, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Kane Mantyla
BTW, when I say co-creators, I mean just that. Not The Creator…simply co-creators. We have been given the power of creation, which is self evident by our civilization. We each create our own worlds through our perception and the God on High so miraculously holds them together. This is the greatest miracle and the greatest gift that we have been given. This very moment is a precious gift, and as I love, do I create love.
July 8, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Lee
How can you believe that we are created in the image of God without the power of God.
Born again Christians are indwelled with the Holy Spirit — the third person of the Triune God — who gives us power as he determines. The Bible is very clear that we are nothing without Him [‘Him’ being the entire Godhead].
There is very definite spiritual realm full of benevolent and malevolent spirits. Unfortunately, many evil spirits masquerade as good:
14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. [2 Corinthians 11:13-14 NIV]
I do not rest on logic as it has tremendous limits.
I rest in the inerrant, infallible Word of God which provides guidance for my life. Human logic will fail at time; but God’s wisdom is above all. This wisdom is only available to true Holy Spirit indwelled believers. Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? He is the only way to Father (Jehovah) God.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [John 14:6 NIV]
July 8, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Kane Mantyla
I first and foremost call upon God, through Christ Jesus to speak through these words.
So my parents ask my 3 year old niece, “do you have Jesus in your heart?” “Yes” she answers, “well how do you know?” they reply. “I just do o.k.” she snaps back angrily.
Matt 23
13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
I have asked Jesus into my heart several times as a child and also as an adult. I have also been attuned with reiki and vortex healing, “the lineage of merlin.” as I have been guided, by my Father in Heaven to these healing modalities and as you research these modalities, you find that Jesus was as well. In both cases the attunement took place in the third eye, but as Jesus came through during his earlier travels, he moved the transmission into the heart. If you research into the east, you will find that Jesus came through Tibet and he is considered the Buddha of Buddhas. The scripture is the word of God, nowhere does it say that is is the whole word of God. In fact, Tibet claims to have more direct quotes of Jesus than the Bible does.
Let it be known that as I was in the process of becoming attuned, I held my trust that God was leading me and I continually gave up my will to the will of our father in heaven. And To this day, I am surrendered to the will of God. I have experienced many things that this site claims as occult, but the love and compassion that resides in my heart is enough for me.
Here is a quick lesson in the nature of linguistics. Emphasize the caps.
IS that my suitcase.
is THAT my suitcase.
is that MY suitcase.
is that my SUITCASE.
When you spend a minute with this you will see the subtle nature of the written word.
It is not my intention to impose my beliefs on to you. I believe that you, as believers in Jesus, are protected in the house of God. It is my intention to create space for those who you have judged, for it is by this judgement that they resist the gracious gifts of Jesus. Share the love, not the fear.
July 8, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Kim
“I have experienced many things that this site claims as occult, but the love and compassion that resides in my heart is enough for me.”
The thing is that Buddhists, those who are involved in Transcendental Meditation, Yoga, Silva Mind Control all experience extreme waves of passion and love. Satan deceives this way when he works upon the senses.
And yes the Bible is the complete work of God. The canon is complete.
When you are filled with the Holy Spirit you CRAVE the Word of God. The Lord brings alive the written word in the believers life.
Almost everyone filled with a false spirit suggests that others are afraid. Fear seems central to those involved in metaphysics. It is as though they are the ones truly trying to overcome fear by projecting this onto others. Christians who walk by the Word and by Faith have no fear except the healthy fear of God, which is biblical.
I do fear the Lord when we are told in Deuteronomy to not delve into divination, which is opening the third eye, reiki, TM, astral travel etc. The Lord calls these things abominations, and they are destestable unto Him.