War on the Saints – Manifestations
When I was sixteen and in Youth Group at church, our leader decided that it would be a great idea to visit other churches and attend their worship service. Our first and only visit would be to a Southern Baptist church in Seattle. I lived in Bellevue at the time, a predominately middle-class white community.
On that particular Sunday morning in the year 1969, we all piled into a couple of cars and headed for Seattle. I remember we all sat in the very back row of the church. Now the service started and the music impressed us. We were used to the typical hymns and this music didn’t sound like anything we had heard before, and it was great.
Of course this was before total pandemonium broke out. The singing got louder and louder and then wilder. Before we knew it…people were rolling in the aisles, legs and arms were flailing, there were loud cries and anguished shouts. People were laying everywhere, shaking, jerking and wailing.
Ushers then came out but now they were dressed as nurses. In white uniforms. People who could not get up were carried out on stretchers. I do not really recall how long this went on. I do remember looking over at our youth group leader and noticing how white his face looked.
When the service was over, (there was no sermon) I remember filing out and shaking the pastors hand, with him thanking us for coming. What a silent ride home. We never discussed what we had seen at this church. To this day I wonder what my friends in youth group told their parents.
I knew that this was not of God and that what we had seen….was demonic. This was my first discernment. It was not until 2004, 35 years later, that I found out about the Toronto Blessing, and Brownsville, Pensacola manifestations. Watching video clips from these services mirrored exactly what I saw so many years ago.
This is from War on the Saints:
MIXED MANIFESTATIONS
The majority of those present may have no idea of the mixture which has crept in. Some fall upon the ground unable to bear the strained emotion, or effect upon the mind; and some are thrown down by some supernatural power; others cry out in ecstasy; the speaker leaves the platform, passes by a young man, who becomes conscious of a feeling of intoxication upon him, which does not leave his senses for some time. Others laugh with the exuberance of the intoxicating joy. Some have had real spiritual help and blessing through the Word of God being expounded ere this climax came, and during the pure outflow of the Holy Spirit; consequently they accept these strange workings as from God, because in the first stage of the meeting, their needs have been truly met by Him; and they cannot discern the two separate “manifestations” coming through the same channel! If they doubt the latter part of the meeting, they fear they are untrue to their inner conviction that the earlier part was “of God.” Others are conscious that the “manifestations” are contrary to their spiritual vision, and judgment; but on account of the blessing of the earlier part they stifle their doubts, and say “We cannot understand the ‘physical’ manifestations, but we must not expect to understand all that God does. We only know that the wonderful outpouring of truth and love and light at the beginning of the meeting was from God, and met our need. No one can mistake the sincerity, the pure motive of the speaker . . therefore, although I cannot understand, or say I ‘like’ the physical manifestations, yet–it must be all of God . . “
TRUE AND COUNTERFEIT ACCEPTED TOGETHER
Briefly put, this is a glimpse into the mixed “manifestations” which have come upon the Church of God, since the Revival in Wales; for, almost without exception, in every land where revival has since broken forth, within a very brief period of time the counterfeit stream has mingled with the true; and almost without exception, true and false have been accepted together, because of the workers being ignorant of the possibility of concurrent streams; or else have been rejected together by those who could not detect the one from the other; or it has been believed that there was no “true” at all, because the majority of believers fail to understand that there can be mixed workings of the (1) Divine and Satanic, (2) Divine and human, (3) Satanic and human, (4) soul and spirit, (5) soul and body, (6) body and spirit; the three latter in the way of feelings and consciousness, and the three former in the way of source and power.
There must be more than one quantity to make a mixture; at least two. The devil mixes his lies with the truth, for he must use a truth to carry his lies. The believer must therefore discriminate, and judge all things. He must be able to see so much to be impure, and so much that he can accept. Satan is a “mixer.” If in anything he finds ninety-nine percent pure, he tries to insert one percent of his poisonous stream, and this grows, if undetected, until the proportions are reversed. Where there is mixture acknowledged to be in meetings where supernatural manifestations take place, if believers are unable to discriminate, they should keep away from these “mixtures” until they are able to discern.
In accepting the counterfeits of Satan, the believer thinks, and believes, he is complying with Divine conditions in order to ascend to a higher life; whereas he complies with conditions for Satanic workings in his life, and thereby descends into a pit of deception and suffering, with his spirit and motive pure.
Ppg. 98-100
I have never found out, even though I have been researching how the false manifestations were transferred or originated in this Seattle church.The transfer of the “anointing” from HTB ( Holy Trinity Brompton) to Toronto (the Toronto Blessing), then onto Pensacola, is well documented. If you take a look at this chart you will see some interesting and well-known names.
“Sir! Sir! Open the door for us.”
“I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.”
29 comments
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April 17, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Mary
“The Holy Spirit cannot be passed from one person into another. ”
Kim,
Based on Acts 8:17 I don’t see where the above quoted statement can stand against scripture scrutiny.
I am from a reformed background, and I never had anyone lay hands on me to receive the Holy Spirit, but it does say in scripture that they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. The charismatic and Pentecostal believers have scriptural support for this.
April 17, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Lee
The link you reference above is interesting web of supporters for the Alpha Course. Perhaps one day I’ll put together a document detailing my thoughts on the course I took last fall.
April 17, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Kim
Hi Mary,
I have never been convinced that this Apostolic gift is still available for today along with other miracles of the apostles such as healing of the blind, which shows my evangelical roots. And I do not believe that the Holy Spirit can be imparted with a wave of the hand, something we see alot of today.
Lee, Did you take the Alpha course? It was started by Nickey Gumble of HTB, and to my knowledge it is now being promoted as a way to get the unchurched into the building. I have read some of the churched attend so that they can get to the Holy Spirit weekend (the 10th week) because of the experience.
The link in the comment came from this site.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emcd/index.htm
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emcd/openletterng1.htm
April 17, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Lee
Kim,
Yes, I read a bit about the Alpha Course and became concerned about it. I brought these concerns to a church I attend sporadically (I attend a class one night a week) which offers the course as an evangelistic tool and a course for new converts. My main concern was the Holy Spirit weekend in which tongues speaking is stressed; but, there were other concerns I read about online.
The criticism leveled against me was that I had not taken the course which gave me no basis to speak against it (fair enough); so, I decided to critique the course directly by attending it. Like most false teachings, there’s good amongst the error. I must say though that Nicky Gumble is quite a likeable speaker.
There’s way too much emphasis on tongues speaking to the point of taking scripture out of context (surprise). For example, Gumble says that the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthians “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.” [1 Cor 14:18] However, Gumble leaves out the most important part in the next verse, “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.” [1 Cor 14:19]
All the way through Paul’s treatise on Spiritual gifts he is pointing out that prophecy is greater than tongues [1 Cor 12 through 14; but, especially chapter 14].
To leave out verse 19 in Chapter 14 as Gumbel does is to purposely further some kind of tongues speaking agenda. Not surprising given HTB’s association with the Toronto “blessing.”
April 17, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Lee
Thanks for providing the other two links above as I’ve not seen them before. I had intended on putting together a paper detailing my concerns about the course to the church. I have to admit that most people I talked with thought I was too “picky” or something to that effect; so, I shelved the paper. Frankly, I feel that since I’m not a member of the church my words would fall on deaf ears — if I would be heard at all.
I stopped attending Sunday services as the sermons are too “light” for me. This is known as a ‘seeker sensitive’ church. I’m currently not a member of any church (never have been as I believe I’m a member of the entire body of Christ at large and hence should not have to profess membership to a building); and, I’ve had a hard time finding a church I can truly feel comfortable with.
April 18, 2008 at 2:58 am
Matt
In response to Mary’s comment.
Actually the Holy spirit can be passed from one person to another.
Mat 3:11 and Luke 3:16 reveal that Christ was able to transfer his anointing to others, which explains why he baptized with fire. He was called savior or sanctifier because as overseer of men’s souls, a soul coming to him for salvation could immediately be granted “forgiveness” and therefore was in the holy condition ready to receive the baptism, Acts 8:17 If you read the non-canonical Gospels you will learn that this was true for many of the other apostles as well.
The oil of the ten virgin’s parable has got nothing to do with the Holy spirit anointing but it does explain the human spirit. In prov 20:27 we learn that the spirit of a man is the lamp of the Lord. The parable explains that when a person’s spirit is made to shine (sanctified) they must not lapse into those sinful activities which make their spirit once again become darkened or dull. The oil which makes a dull (sinful) lamp shiny (without sin) is the “forgiveness of sins” which cannot be obtained again once an enlightened person has fallen from grace because of a return to sinful ways. It corresponds to 2 Peter 2:22
The apostolic gift is not available today because no one is in a sanctified state to receive it. Instead they receive a counterfeit baptism. As it says
they have the image of holiness but without it’s POWER, 2 Tim 3:5
This is the fundamental issue facing the CHURCH and is basically because carnal arrogance handles the word of truth incorrectly.
April 18, 2008 at 5:22 am
Mary
Kim,
I hope I didn’t sound contentious. This is an issue I seem to waver back and forth about. And when push comes to shove I can only say honestly I just don’t know for sure either way. Certainly the waving of the hand, shooting the Holy Spirit like arrows is bogus.
April 18, 2008 at 5:22 am
Lee
Matt,
I have to disagree with your usage of the Luke and Matthew passages as you don’t have the full context. Here’s the rest:
John answered them all, “I baptize you with[a] water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 17His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” [Luke 3:16-17]
I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” [Matthew 3:11-12]
The ‘fire’ in Luke 3:16 and Matthew 3:11 is referring to judgment as Luke 3:17 and Matthew 3:12 make clear with the burning up of the chaff with ‘unquenchable fire.’ What is this ‘unquenchable fire’ but the fires of Hell? The ‘wheat in the barn’ are the ones saved by receiving the free grace gift of Jesus’ death on the cross.
In fact, Jesus never did lay hands on anyone to receive the (have the indwelled) Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit first came upon the disciples/Apostles at Pentecost AFTER Jesus death and resurrection. Jesus tells of the future promise of the Holy Spirit’s indwelling in John 14:15 through 17:26.
April 18, 2008 at 7:23 am
Tim H
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/comm_read.pl?book=Mat&chapter=25&verse=1&Comm=Comm%2Fmhc%2FMat%2FMat025.html%235%26Matthew%26Henry&Select.x=16&Select.y=11
I have a statement.
You relate that the oil in the lamps is likened to the Holy Spirit and as I have read in the above commentary and others that I have looked at, the oil represents grace. I tend to agree with it as being grace because if you remember in th N.T. there is the story of the man that wanted to purchase the “power” of the Holy Spirit” or purchase the Holy Spirit and that was a no no.
The Holy Spirit is freely given to those who believe and because of that belief and teaching I not sure that we can state that the 10 virgins oil is the Holy Spirit. You can’t buy the Holy Spirit.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
April 18, 2008 at 7:34 am
Tim H
Actually Jesus didn’t lay hands on them he breathed on them…
Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
I think that the scriptures gives evidence that the Holy Spirit IS given. It seems that to provide some kind of act or visualization to show that this Baptism of the Holy Spirit occured we have breathe and the flames of fire with the sound of the rushing wind, and we have the Apostles laying on of hands.
To me the question seems to be not so much the process that it is used as a visual that it is occuring but rather is it indeed for today and whether the gifts can be manifested.
I have to get to work and I will continue this thought in the next comment.
April 18, 2008 at 8:24 am
Kim
It is my understanding that the oil represents the Holy Spirit.
Exodus 30:22-33
This speaks of an anointing oil, which was the symbol of the Priest’s empowerment of the Holy Spirit, at a given time for a specific work.
I too looked at the Blue Letter Bible and found this commentary from David Guzik.
“b. Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out: Throughout the Scriptures, oil is a consistent emblem of the Holy Spirit. Without oil, the virgins were not ready for the bridegroom. “
In this case in the Parable of the Ten Virgins the virgins had lamps and the oil is what makes the lamp illuminate. What makes the life of a Christian powerful? It is the Holy Spirit.
Zechariah 4:6 states that God’s work cannot be accomplished by human power, nor talent, but only by His Spirit.
John 3:5-6 states that only if one has been born again by the Holy Spirit, can one enter the kingdom of God.
Thus i believe this parable is referring to the Holy Spirit because those without the oil…the door will be closed to them.
These parables in Matthew 25 are all about being prepared for the return of Jesus Christ and judgment.
Yes, that verse says that you cannot buy the Holy Spirit, but if the other interpretation is correct then one cannot buy grace either.
Actually i believe the story of Simon who wanted to purchase the Holy Spirit reinforces the interpretation of the oil for the lamps is the Holy Spirit.
hhmmm…maybe i should of used this passage instead of the foolish virgins passage. ????
Simon the magician had the wrong motives to gain the power of the Holy Spirit. He wanted to only increase his own power over men. This is where the word “simony” is derived from.
Simon wanted Peter’s gift but Simon’s idol was the power, not the righteousness. Something we see today…..
April 18, 2008 at 10:10 am
Kim
Lee,
Please continue to study the Alpha Course. I won’t fall on deaf ears here. I have been wanting to post about it this summer.
The main concern of Alpha is of course its origin and it appears to be repacked as a ministry reaching out to unbelievers. I called a Lutheran church in my local area when i saw a sign stating, “Alpha is coming”. I called them and asked them about the program and they knew little about it. To my knowledge the course was never offered.
If the “spirit” is called to come upon unbelievers, they will not receive the Holy Spirit. If some spirit is “received” by them …it will be a counterfeit spirit.
April 18, 2008 at 10:35 am
Lee
If the “spirit” is called to come upon unbelievers, they will not receive the Holy Spirit. If some spirit is “received” by them …it will be a counterfeit spirit.
That’s exactly the alarm I raised. Now, in reading War on the Saints, it’s become increasingly evident to me that deceiving spirits can decieve those who are already Holy Spirit indwelled since a meeting can be a mixture of good and evil spirits.
April 18, 2008 at 10:49 am
Lee
Kim,
I sent you an email on the Alpha Course.
April 18, 2008 at 11:31 am
Lee
Hey Tim H.,
Not to be contentious or a stickler here; but, I’m not sure the John 20:22 passage is meant to indicate a HS indwelling. The notes on this text in the NIV Study Bible state:
Thus anticipating what happened 50 days later on the day of Pentecost (Ac. 2). The disciples needed God’s help to carry out the commission they had just been given.
It is not until Acts 2:1-4 that the Apostles [and perhaps also the 120] were filled (indwelled) with the Holy Spirit:
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
Now, the following are my observations/conclusions; but, I’m certainly up for clarification or rebuke:
It’s obvious in the Gospel of Luke that the Apostles and the Seventy-two (Luke 10:1-20) had the Holy Spirit fall upon them as they performed miracles (“Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” vs 17). My belief is that this is just like in the OT where the HS fell upon individuals at certain God-ordained times for His purposes. This would explain their power. However, at Pentecost the very first Christians became indwelled (sealed as in Eph 1:13 and other passages) with the HS.
April 18, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Tim H
Thanks Lee your right.
Couldn’t seem to make my point anyway. Tried to continue my thought three times and erased.
April 19, 2008 at 11:51 am
Kim
This is from Leigh, who had trouble posting…….
Hi Kim,
I have tried to add comment to the ‘oil of the Holy Spirit’ but for some reason I cannot at work. Could you copy and paste this in for me please..
I just picked up on the previous comments on the oil of the Holy Spirit. I believe that the oil spoken of in Matthew 25 equates with the Holy spirit. We must be filled all the time in spiritual preparedness for we know not the day or the hour of Christ’s return.
Spiritual preparedness is something that cannot be shared. Wesley said ‘No man has more than enough holiness for himself.’ The whole point of the parable is that it is too late to get prepared when Christ returns.
Regarding the Alpha course, I do not know enough about it either but calling any spirit to unbelievers is asking for trouble. They have enough already. Any Christian who is not armed and covered in the Armor of God can be a victim of demonic attack also.
Satan with his many counterfeits today is snaring all those Christians with itching ears and turning them aside from the true gospel into accepting fables. For those who do not believe that demons can inhabit a true Christian they should read War on the Saints, for it was because of this very reason that Jessie Penn Lewis and Evan Roberts wrote this classic. They saw and had to deal with the results personally.
Blessings. Leigh
April 19, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Kim
Tim,
I reread the comments and i have to say that i have said something wrong here….like duh…The virgins went to buy the oil and Simon is told you cannot buy the Holy Spirit.
So the story of Simon and the Holy Spirit does not reinforce the interpretation of the oil of the virgins.
But….i still believe and this is my personal belief that the oil in the virgins lamps is the Holy Spirit.
April 19, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Tim H
There are commentaries that agree with you and others that seem to support what I read. It’s cool….
April 20, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Lori
I am wondering if this is prepping the church for this planetary Pentecost also being known as I think (not sure) planetary smile, quantum Spirituality. Jill Austin from the Elijah List is calling on a “new Pentecost.” I first heard about it after reading an article called “Holy Laughter or Strong Delusion” by Warren Smith. While the Pope has been here I notice him using the words new Pentecost.
Does anyone know if this is all the same thing? Maybe a false spirit that the lukewarm church will be calling this the Holy Spirit, new Pentecost. the rest of the world may be calling it the names I posted above? Just a guess on my part anyway, sigh!
April 20, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Kim
Lori,
I was looking at the comments by the Pope and yes i see what you mean. He refers to a new Pentecost. I looked for the Jill Austin references and couldn’t find it. Do you have a link?
I have read about the planetary Pentecost from Barbara Marx Hubbard, New Ager/politician. Warren Smith has written about her. This is what she says about a “Planetary Pentecost.”
“Those who continue to believe in fear and separation, rather than love and oneness will not evolve.” *** The birth experience is a shared event in the future…when everyone on the planet will be mysteriously changed in the twinkling of an eye as humanity…is collectively transformed into Homo Universalis..some will choose not to evolve..Those who deny their own divinity are cancer cells in the Body of God….and must be overcome. This selection process results in the deaths of those who refuse to see themselves as part of God. “
Whew…so those who will not participate in the planetary Pentecost, according to Barbara Marx Hubbard’s “Christ”, will be destroyed.
Is this going to be the final persecution of Christians who want to separate themselves from the rest of world and not unite into the one-world religious system?
April 20, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Lori
Kim,
Time is going to tell. Just seems the languages/words being used seem to be the same or similar.
Here is the link on Jill Austin. It is an older article but notice her language.
http://www.jillaustin.org:80/newsletters/article.asp?id=59
April 20, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Lori
I forgot to add a link called “The Global Consciousness Project or EGG,” Looks or at least as I can understand they are monitoring consciousness. About half way down the page they say that they can help create a Planetary smile.
http://noosphere.princeton.edu/index.html
April 21, 2008 at 9:51 am
Kim
Thank you for the last link. I think it extremely important.
The Global Consciousness Project seems to be the scientific counterpart to
“Christ Consciousness” or even New Age thought.
This site describes itself as:
“Interconnecting with everyone: Being in global consciousness
The Global Consciousness Project is an effort to capture some faint indications of a true global consciousness. The purpose of the project is to examine subtle correlations that appear to reflect the presence and activity of consciousness in the world.”
“Pierre Teilhard de Chardin postulated that the noosphere is composed of all the interacting minds on Earth. The word refers to a transhuman consciousness emerging from our interactions to become a guiding intelligence for the earth. ”
This statement is important…..”a..consciousness emerging from our intereactions to become a guiding intelligence for the earth.”
This totally leaves out Jesus Christ. It is the same lie from the Garden of Eden. That with knowledge we can be as God.
Lori, I think you nailed it. All these concepts today ARE THE SAME THING.
Global Unity, Planetary smile, Divine Laughter, Christ Consciousness, Quantum Spirituality, Christian Yoga, etc…etc…
Satan will offer various ways to all the people of the world, the deception which appeals to them personally . The end-time deception will be world-wide and it will be spiritual. It is like we can see right before our very eyes the framework being set-up…….
For those who want to click on the Link Lori provided, click on Planetary Smile and then at the bottom of that page read, “A message of hope.” from Barbara Marx Hubbard. Hubbard is deceived into thinking that “Christ” dictated an alternated book of Revelation to her.
Oh Lord..Come quickly.
April 26, 2008 at 1:22 am
Matt
The “oil” that keeps the lamps burning brightly in the parable of the ten virgins is the Holy Spirit for sure, but it describes the actions of the Holy Spirit upon a man’s spirit. Proverbs 20:27 we learn “the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, Searching all the innermost parts of his being”.
The lamps are the spirits of the virgins awaiting the Lord in the day of salvation. The lamps who grow dim are those virgins who themselves do not become fully sanctified by the purifying work of the Holy Spirit which “forgives sins” and consequently transforms an unrighteous (sinful) man into a righteous (sinless) one, leading to a state of spiritual “shinyness”. Those who have been made to shine, are in a state of “quaddash” which is the Hebrew word to make shiny. A saint is therefore someone whose spirit is shiny. A person who is internally shiny is therefore also HOLY, originating from the Saxon Ha-lig, or wholeness of light. A Holy person is therefore a person with nothing darkening their internal lamps. Remembering that without Holiness, no one will see the Lord, Heb 12:14
Those who are sanctified will shine like stars and consequently be able to ascend into the kingdom and meet the bridegroom to be with him where he is (in the bridal chamber).
April 27, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Lee
Kim,
If you’re not aware, here’s a new “move of God” in Lakeland, Florida:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/todd-bentley-ministering-in-auburndalelakeland-florida/#comment-5080
Just like Toronto/Brownsville…
April 27, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Kim
Lee, I just read it. You are right..it sounds like a Toronto/Brownsville revival. Definitely NOT a move of God.
May 13, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Melville
Hello,
This page came up when I “Googled” War on the Saints in connection to an email I was studiously trying to respond to that was about another “move of God”, this time in Redding, CA. It was about a video from a certain Bill Johnson, paster of a certain Bethel church there, where there are many reports of healings. He is in the overall Toronto, Lakeland, Heidi Baker network of leaders and happenings. In this video/sermon he gave a brief history of Pentecostal/Charismatic type revivals and one name stood out for me: Evan Roberts, who co-authored War on the Saints. These other happenings in Toronto, etc., involve very similar mixed manifestatons, just as in the quotation above. In this connection I stumbled upon this page and hope it’s all right to offer a comment or two.
There are several subjects that are so interesting in the posts here. Starting with the very last, “. . . Not a move of God.” This goes to the same issue face by Mrs. Penn-Lewis and Mr. Roberts. Is the whole thing either of or not of God or can there be a mixture, two streams flowing into the situation?
James proves that his is not at all a “straw epistle” (as Luther called it)when he states calls attention to this very possibility, bitter waters and then sweet flowing out of the same mouth. It shouldn’t be that way but it happens. And then he goes on to distinguish between two sources of so-called wisdom, one from above and one from below, one pure and the other demonically infiltrated. So in principle the mixture IS a real possibility, biblically speaking, and this plays out in real experience.
The question put to me when freinds tell me about these happenings is whether the whole thing is a fraud or could part of it be real?
The Ten Virgins. This was a passage my late wife was repeatedly drawn back to. It was so paradoxical to her, I think. They were all virgins. They weren’t “sluts”. They were in the company waiting for the Bridegroom, so they weren’t unbelievers. EVERYBODY fell asleep. Then came the shout- He’s coming. But the foolish virgins hadn’t acquired that extra oil that the wise ones had and their lamps were going out. It was a somehow measured quantity. They wise couldn’t give it because there wouldn’t be enough for both. So the foolish had to go and buy it. Amazingly, they wereable to! They got the oil. Alas, it was too late. They missed the wedding feast. He didn’t recognize them. Interestingly, after He tells the story when everyone went to sleep, He then says to stay awake and not about how to get the extra oil. Then again, He does tell the laodicean church, in Revelation 3, to “buy” from Him. The foolish Virgins bought but it was too late. It wasn’t for the Laodiceans. But then, if I may ask rhetorically, what could be the means of exchange?
The Alpha Course. I’ve not done it but I did go through the post-Alpha course, which was created as a follow-up, based on Philippians, so I’m aware of the format and the original. The Alpha is a tool to help bring non-beleivers into dialogue with Christianity. It is very elmentary, not a foundation that should need to be re-laid for mature beleivers. Please let us grow up. The letter to the Hebrews was motivated from that.
The post-Alpha one, the Bible study leaders and I ended up agreing, was written by taking passages from Paul as a jumping off place for the writer’s own idea. It was not an exegesis of Philippians.
This is not meant to discourage anyone from studying or attending it. I met very fine people there, within this format. It was just that the format pretty much hindered getting at what Paul, himself, was driving at.
Thank you, Kim, for your blog, discernment, and stimulating thoughts.
Yours in Christ,
Melville Holmes
January 4, 2010 at 2:37 pm
broinchrist
Amen melville…One does not need a class to bring about diaglog between “the way” and non-beleivers.”If I be lifted up Iwill draw all man unto Me”. American christians repent of all the warnings in the first 3 chapters of Revelation, and let the works {righteous acts of the saints}come from a place of total rest, like mary, NOT MARTHA.His power that is promised to those who beleive,comes forth from the 15 chapter of John.Any other work or manifastation that comes from anyone or any where else is the strength of man or even more sinister the devil. i.e. the sooth-sayers in Pharaohs court. May we all, by his grace, overcome to the end.