In Todd Bentley’s initiation “ordination” ceremony last week one George
Banov spoke providing Bentley a ‘prophetic word.’ I must say that
initially, at least, he was a welcome relief following the demonic,
frenetic, wild head shakin’ thang of Stacey Campbell. Banov comes in at
6:00 minutes:
A quick internet search could not produce much info on Banov; but, he’s
obviously of the same heretical Latter Rain ‘stream’ as the others on stage.
The reason I wish to call attention to this is the fact that in his ‘word’
Banov uses two Messianic prophetic scriptures and claims God told him these
were for Bentley! Here’s the transcription:
“Todd on behalf of the Eastern European nations and former Communist
Countries, we want to tell you that we acknowledge and honor what’s upon
you. And, we give you the keys for Eastern Europe — especially the poor,
the rejected, the gypsies.
“And The Lord says that because you’ve loved his personal presence there are
two anointings that are released on His presence and I just want to release
those two anointings on you from the LORD. By the way, the Lord says ‘you
are well pleasing son.’ The Father, Abba, says that to you personally. The
first anointing is the anointing of the pleasure of the LORD. [emphasis
mine]
“’Surely He has borne our grief, sickness and weakness and carried our
sorrow and the pain and the punishment of us all. He was considered
stricken, smitten and afflicted by God; but, He was bruised for our
transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities and chastisement
that brought our peace came upon him and by His stripes we were healed and
made whole.’ [Isaiah 53:4-5] And, yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him
and in His presence there is fullness of joy and pleasure for evermore.
[This is apparently a paraphrase of more than one scripture with another.]
And, God’s releasing his pleasure of what He did to Jesus upon you Todd.
“And, the second anointing that he wants to release upon you is in Psalm 45
but it’s also in Hebrews chapter one verse nine. It says, ‘Because you have
loved righteousness and you have delighted in integrity and virtue and
uprightness in heart and thought and action and you have hated injustice and
iniquity; therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of exultant
joy and gladness above and beyond your companions.’ We bless you.”
Not only does he quote two Messianic scriptures and applies these to
Bentley, he even goes so far as to claim that the Lord referred to Todd as a
‘well pleasing son’ thus putting Bentley on par with Jesus! [Matthew 3:17;
Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22] Does this not show this group to be promoting
Manifest Sons of God doctrine – part of the heresy of the Latter Rain
teachings? And, no one batted an eyelash on stage or in the audience. In
fact, they clapped and cheered.
I wish to point out that there is only one true anointing – the anointing of
the Holy Spirit upon true believers who accept Jesus Christ as their
personal savior.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the
truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but
because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the
liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the
antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has
the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it
does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what
he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you
astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you,
and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you
about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it
has taught you, remain in him. [1 John 2:20-27 NIV]
To promote that we can attain Christlikeness this side of glory is
tantamount to denying Jesus Christ’s exclusive Divinity as the One and only
Son of God. As the Apostle John points out above, this is the spirit of
antichrist.
submitted by Craig “Lee” Dorsheimer
DiscernIt 
312 comments
July 3, 2008 at 2:31 pm
cheryl U.
Jon,
In answer to your question about Wigglesworth, if he made the statement that was quoted above, I would definetley call him a heretic. Not at all someone I would look to as an example of how things should be done today.
July 3, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Jon
Lee,
I don’t see that Bentley says it’s “all” about angels. I see it as him saying it is about awakening the people of God to the supernatural and to our full inheritance.
I think the statement “to believe in THE ANGEL’ is interesting. Angels would be more correct and Biblical. Angelica encounters and even guidance are common in Scripture if you research it. Consider even Philip being led by an angel and it doesn’t even mention the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:26)
July 3, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Lee
Jon,
As far as Georgians’ statement and use of Isaiah 53 I think it was a little strange…the other Scripture I am fine with the reading of Isaiah 53 over him I didn’t quite understand. I think it probably should have been clarified. Psalm 45 is a reference to Jesus (as quoted in Hebrews), but in the Psalms and context of it there I think it could be something that God would want to release on anyone as He pleases.
I agree with this 100%; but, Banov does make a point to quote the Hebrews 1:9 passage which definitely refers to Jesus Christ. That’s why I say if you take the two scriptures cited + the ‘well pleasing son’ comment Banov is pointing that Bentley is just like Jesus. I am well sure that God would not promote any kind of ambiguity such as this; however, who is the author of confusion?
July 3, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Jon
The above comment should say “angelic” not “angelica” which was a pretty decent Christian band in the 80’s….angelic being more correct meaning “the holy angels of the Lord” or to most of us just angels (in contrast to other angels which are more appropriately call demons or evil spirits)
July 3, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Jon
Jon,
If it was you may have to use Hebrews 6 for him falling away from faith…..if you believe in that sort of thing :o)
I believe that once you are saved you are always saved as Ephesians 1:13 and 2 Cor. 1:21-22 make clear.
I won’t argue that here but I disagree again…surprise! Hebrews 6 clearly shows you can fall away (is it easy, no, possible yes)
July 3, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Jon
Sorry I don’t know how to do italics….
July 3, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Lee
Jon,
Yes, angelic encounters are in scripture; but, they are not the norm. And, more important, they were never sought out in scripture — rather they came to individuals who were in great fear of them. Bentley has fireside chats with ’em and calls on ’em for various things. Read here:
http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html
These are various teachings that were archive before Bentley deleted them from his website.
The tough thing to do is to tie all this together. That is the biggest challenge as Bentley is not real forthcoming on his beliefs. We get it in bits and pieces; but, when pieced all together it paints an uncomfortable picture.
July 3, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Lee
Jon,
Yes, Hebrews 6 says you can fall away; but, it’s talking to the Jews who are not yet converted — hence the title. If you keep reading through to chapter 10, you’ll see that the writer is making a case away from Judaism and toward Christ.
July 3, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Lee
Jon,
Italicize by with the words you wish to italicize in the middle. Here’s a link for basic html tags (I’m not real good with this stuff myself):
http://www.problogger.net/archives/2006/02/20/basic-in-post-html/
July 3, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Lee
Well, my tags didn’t show; but, follow the link above for directions.
July 3, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Jon
All the encounters in Scripture do no have great fear…see Philip in Acts, Zechariah, Ezekiel 8 the encounter with God and the angel is without fear.
July 3, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Jon
Ponder this question though:
How come the devil is in the only one doing all the supernatural stuff? Why is God so weak and small that only the devil has the power and is doing this stuff now days….???? It seems to me that we have served too small a God, not the God of the Bible, but the god of the western church…Please consider this I beg you all.
I’m sorry I have to go. Enjoyed the discussion. May the Holy Spirit lead us all into His truth whatever that is. I want to be open to whatever He says thank you for sharing. Be blessed.
July 3, 2008 at 2:54 pm
The Gathering
Concerning Todd Bentley, Ignited Church, and the Lakeland Revival: There is something very big and dramatic happening. Though I have not seen Todd Bentley in person, I have watched enough videos, interviews, and read so many blogs on him that my head is going to explode. Since I live near Lakeland and have worked with youth in teaching and worship, lead worship for a large congregation, and now pastor a young adult community in a large non- denominational church, I wanted to check it all out. So I went to Ignited Church, though it didn’t feel like I was at church.
You can read my full blog:
kingdomgathering.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/ok-i-have-to-see-for-myself/
Two things:
1. Read 1 Corinthians 14 on orderly worship
2. researchor google what kundalini or dynamic meditation is
I left Ignited Church feeling like I had been to a new age meditation ceremony, or a dynamic meditation meeting. As a chrsitian who has heard from God, felt His touch many times, and is called to preach His Word, I found it very hard to hear, see, or feel from God because of all the distractions going on in that building. Simply put, it was NOT orderly worship. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in all the spiritual gifts, and consider myself charismatic with a seat belt on. But the service I experienced was chaotic, and somewhat creepy. If people are truly coming to know Jesus Christ through Todd Bentley, Ignited Church, or the Lakeland Revivals that is awesome, but I am concerned of what is coming next from Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revivals.
Oh yeah, regarding something I read in a previous comment from John…
Based on Scripture, what Todd Bentley does is not in the character of Jesus Christ. Jesus never did and would never head butt someone, leg drop someone, knee someone in the stomach, kick someone in the face, choke, punch, or belly flop a follower of His or someone wanting to be healed by Him. When Jesus returns he might do that to some people, but only to those who do not truly follow Him.
July 3, 2008 at 3:00 pm
mbaker
John:
Psalm 45 is a reference to Jesus (as quoted in Hebrews), but in the Psalms and context of it there I think it could be something that God would want to release on anyone as He pleases.
Here’s the part I disagree with Banov about the Psalm 45 “anointing” on Todd Bentley.
Psalm 45: 7 – “You love what is right and hate what is wrong. Therefore, God , Your God has anointed with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
For the proper exposition and application of Psalm 45, go here:
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1883
It’s a rather lengthy read, but worth the time. It seems to apply only to anointing given to the Davidic kings, as well as referring to the pre-eminence of Christ. To say God had promised Todd the same kind of anointing, beyond his companions, would be elevating him in the same manner of biblical kings and/or Christ.
That would definitely put it in the MSoG category.
July 3, 2008 at 3:02 pm
mbaker
All,
That first paragraph in my 3:00 P. M. comment was a quote from Jon , not John, and it have been place in quotation marks. Sorry for the mistake.
July 3, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Lee
The Gathering,
Thanks for coming by and posting your comments. I welcome any further comments about Lakeland/Bentley/Ignited, etc. as you have a unique perspective being a Lakeland resident.
You may want to check out this blog if you haven’t already:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/index-to-all-articles-on-todd-bentley-lakeland-outpouring-florida-revival/
July 3, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Lee
mbaker,
You are correct regarding your post @ 3:00pm on Psalm 45. It was sloppy of me to agree in total with Jon’s statment. Thanks for the correction.
July 3, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Avoid One Thing » Blog Archive » Comment on George Banov’s Blasphemous Prophecy at Todd Bentley’s …
[…] Comment on George Banov’s Blasphemous Prophecy at Todd Bentley’s … They missed the rest of the move of God because of one main thing: they took offense. There are many offenses that can hinder us from embracing the move of the Spirit but I want us to focus on three. The first offense that we must avoid … […]
July 3, 2008 at 3:56 pm
mbaker
Jon,
Thanks for sharing your article on Lakeland. I appreciate that you want to see God do something to alleviate human suffering. Trust me, I would like nothing more than to see several of my friends and brothers and sisters who have cancer and other debilitating disease made whole again.
However, in our eagerness, we cannot embrace everything that seems to be of God by lumping legitimate questions under “offenses”, thus making any valid voices of reason shamed into sounding like they are hyper-religious people who simply think too much. That is an unfounded supposition that assumes we are not to use our God-given minds, but follow any leader who claims he or she is anointed of God like good little robots.
That reminds me of one of one of my favorite cartoons, which depicts a whole herd of sheep falling over a cliff. In the midst of them, there is this one black sheep going the other way, and pushing through the throng, saying “Excuse me”.
I think that is what happening with a lot of charismatics. They are following Todd right over a dangerous cliff. I believe this time I agree with the black sheep. I think I’ll go the other way.
July 3, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Kim
I read the article from The Gathering. Very revealing and i like to hear what those who have to say who were actually there.
Here is an excerpt
“As I walked into the main worship area (that had no hint of a Christian cross anywhere) the music had just begun and was very hypnotic, building up with chants in tongues by the worship leader and his other vocalists. Right away I felt like I was at a Hindu, Buddhist, or new age meeting. It was creepy to say the least. It really reminded me of kundalini.”
I think i will post this article.
July 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Tim H
Jon,
I haven’t read all of the comments yet but I did want to respond to something you answered me on above…
It just doesn’t mean much if you haven’t walk in the realm of the supernatural….once you go there you’ll never see the world the same :o). Sorry I am not trying to be rude. Forgive me for making it too blunt.
Just so you know, I’ve been there, done that, even was involved in some IHOP teaching and antiphonal worship, etc. and this is not new to me. I have experienced the miraculous, healing, and the things of the spirit.
It wasn’t until I was getting deep into the “things of the spirit” that are occuring now that the brakes went off and I didn’t do it. I believe the Holy Spirit gave me discernment and put the red flags up. It’s been a long process to hear from the Holy Spirit why I needed to stop but I believe that I am more in His will now than when I was shaking rattling and rolling in this stuff.
Just so you know I am 56 and been around. I am not taking you as being rude and there’s nothing wrong with being blunt, but as one who has been saved and having a wonderful relationship with the Lord as many, many, many saints in the past, when a statement is made like what you made, it’s like telling that person that his/her walk has been not all that it’s meant to be. And frankly the wisdom they have gained in the Lord, without all the hoopla, sometimes is much greater than we realize.
July 3, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Kim
I have been sitting just sitting back today reading most of the comments while i am here at work, checking occasionally for moderation issues.
I too fell into deception. . I was having visions that would occur the next day. I was given “words” but some did not come true. When I went into the Word i learned that the prophets were 100% accurate and then i knew what i had heard was not from God.
I was listening to the enemy.
Thus i was sent into a journey of discernment, praying for truth everday. I prayed that any “gift” i had, would be removed from me if it was not from God. The visions stopped. The “messages’ I was receiving in the middle of the night also stopped. Now i walk in faith and the Word. I still depend on the Holy Spirit for comfort, teaching, and guidance among the many other functions of the Spirit.
My womens group, we teach the Bible. meet regularly for training, study and prayer. Women in my group have had healings like disappearing tumors etc. We don’t fall on the ground and shake, but we do go to our knees and all pray together. Then we go to our Bibles. And we do not go beyond what is written.
If anyone ever wanted to “anoint” me… i would run in the other direction. I have the Holy Spirit as a deposit and the Holy Spirit indwells me especially for His service.
July 3, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Julia Palermo
i think all of you have way too much time on your hands that could be better spent on your faces in prayer. i love Jesus and i love you.
julia
July 3, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Kim
Julia,
I agree with you. I still want to warn the flock but much more prayer is needed.
July 3, 2008 at 7:27 pm
mbaker
John Burton,
You said:
“I made the point previously that every good, solid Bible college on the planet holds to differing views on non-absolutes of scripture.”
“Is there only one of those schools that’s not heretical? Is it possible to disagree and still be brothers and sisters? I’m not talking about an eccumenical idea here- I’m simply affirming that it’s possible to have differing views.”
You are right that is possible to have differing views on some things, and and still be in the realm of correct doctrine.
But, mere disagreement between brethren has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are talking about serious theological areas that affect the entire body of Christ, not just the differences between cessationists and continuationists, which most theologians concede, (albeit some grudgingly), could go either way.
For instance, Todd has accused the western church of not accepting the supernatural, which is a real oxymoron. In order to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior in the first place, we have to believe in the supernatural birth of Jesus and His supernatural resurrection as essential doctrines.
So, it seems Todd is the one who is confused when he says that the church can’t accept the supernatural, since he is obviously making it an argument of what some call “non-essential ” doctrines, regarding the existence or non- exsistence of the gifts today.
July 4, 2008 at 12:17 am
Lee
Jon,
In all the goings-on today I missed this post until just now:
Well you shared about 1 John 4 and the contrast of “anointings.” First of all there is no mention of the “indwelling” of the Spirit in this passage. (Though certainly is it throughout other Scriptures). And then changed Christ in Matthew 24 to “anointing” to make a point. (That may not have been an interpretation but an example.).
Neverthless I see 1 John 4 as confirming the ministry of Todd Bentley. The test in 1 John 4 is whether or not the “spirit” acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. I would say at this point that Todd Bentley passes. He clearly teaches that Jesus came in the flesh, lived a sinless life, died as a subsitutionary atonement for our sins and rose again on the third day.
The spirit of the antichrist it says will not acknowledge this about Jesus. That is the only example of I see on this site.
You must be referring to my July 2 3:51pm post. I believe you’ve confused my scripture reference in 1 John and hence my point; so, I’ll clarify. I was speaking of 1 John 2:20-27 as in the original post. It is obvious that in context John is speaking of the Holy Spirit indwelling with verse 20:
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. [NIV]
Since the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, this passage is undoubtedly speaking of the Holy Spirit.
Rather than type everything in the 7/2 3:51 post again, I’ll ask you to look it over again with the 1 John 2:20-27 in mind rather 1 John 4. The main point was since I believe Banov is essentially equating Bentley with Jesus (a view you probably do not share) then this is tantamount to denying Christ’s exclusivity as THE Son of God which qualifies this as being antichrist according 1 John 2:22. To further make my point I show that according to Strong’s the Greek word ‘Christos’ has two meanings 1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God; and, 2) anointed.
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=5547
I truly believe that the translation should be both “the Christ” and “the anointed” as this makes more sense in this passage as I explained above. And, I’m not the only one with this view. I’ve heard this recently in two different sermons; and, I’ve seen it in print twice.
I disagree with you that Bentley, “clearly teaches that Jesus came in the flesh, lived a sinless life, died as a subsitutionary atonement for our sins and rose again on the third day.” I’ve NEVER heard him say this at Lakeland. According to the NIV note on 1 John 4:2:
Not only knows intellectually – for demons know and shudder. Thus John excludes the Gnostics…
The extreme MSoG teachings believe that when Jesus returns he will return in Spirit only and inhabit the bodies of ‘perfected saints.’ While I believe these guys (all those on stage with Bentley on his commissioning) are too smart to be pinned down on this (at this point in time), Rick Joyner is one who is an obvious Gnostic:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/rick-joyner-the-apostle-paul-and-the-antichrist/#comments
Joyner states that Jesus ‘was and is Spirit’ thus denying Christ came in the flesh. I believe this is truly what other adherents to MSoG teachings believe which includes Bentley, Peter Wagner and the others onstage at the commissioning. This would qualify them as antichrist. See my first two comments on the above link.
July 4, 2008 at 12:45 am
thenonconformer
If you don’t answer questions, whatever. It is cause what I have posted is very clear and indeniable too already
and because I am not foolish to play your fighting game, get a real life and act like a real christian..
here is what I have posted about the OAG
The Assemblies of God Pentecostal supporters, members are noted for their opposition to the Florida Lakeland revival, and to the Latter day movement.. and I rightfully as I do dislike their too often abusive unchristian like posts too.. but why the opposition? Jealous? How wordly, ungoldy? It supposedly competes with their own revival?
“I have just returned from Buffalo and am now home in Pensacola. What awesome services on Sunday! Pastor Tommy Reid said to his congregation, “There are moments when God moves in a church and today is one of them!” I am always humbled when the Lord moves. From the first service at 8 am to the last service at 11:30 God moved in all three. The first service, which is mainly seniors, had a wonderful sense of God’s power! As I prayed for the saints of the church, each one fell under the power of God! How humbling! When the second service crowd started to move into the sanctuary they saw their beloved seniors prostrate out on the floor! That’s enough to build anyone’s faith. I had the privilege of praying for probably another two to three hundred people. The second service rolled right into the third service which is primarily a multi cultural service. God was faithful and moved again touching lives at the altar! http://www.brownsville-revival.org/“
and like many other Pentecostals, Alliance, Baptist, Evangelcial Churches they falsey do not include helping poor people in their own churches as an essential Christian doctrine now too? why?
(Rom 15:26 KJV) For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
(2 Cor 9:9 KJV) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
(Gal 2:10 KJV) Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
(James 2:5 KJV) Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
(James 2:6 KJV) But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do see also http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-is-toronto-airport-christian-fellowship-angry-still/
July 4, 2008 at 12:50 am
Lee
Jon,
I just read your quote:
The Lord led me to a passage of Scripture which helps illustrate this. In John 6, Jesus has been talking about some radical new things for His day and some people are finding them hard to accept. He has said that He is the bread of life, He is the bread that comes down from heaven and He even says that if you don’t eat of His flesh or drink His blood that you have no life in you! This is something new and shocking to the people of that day and their response is seen below:
60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. John 6:60-66 NIV
In reading this I get a different take on why you were led to read this. From the NIV note on verses 53-58 in part:
…He clearly does not teach that receiving that sacrament is the one requirement for eternal life or that is the only ordinance through which Jesus Christ and His saving benefits are received. In this very discourse He emphasizes faith in response to testimony. Flesh and blood here point to Christ as the crucified one and the source of life. Jesus speaks of faith’s appropriation of himself as God’s appointed sacrifice, not – at least directly – of any ritual requirement.
In verse 65 Jesus makes it clear that the Father has to open there blinded eyes first. Jesus’ point is that some will not follow him. My take on this is that God through Jesus words in this passage is telling you to follow Jesus and NOT MAN! By ‘man’ I refer to Lakeland in general or any man for that matter. God is omnipresent. You don’t have to go anywhere to meet him; in fact, you have the Holy Spirit living inside of you!
If you go back a few verses to 6:28 you see that they keep asking what they must DO – what works are required. Jesus simply told again and again that HE is the one, the bread of life. Not everyone will chose this – to simply follow Him, believing the simple Truth of the Gospel, the Truth that will set you free (8:31-32) while abiding in Him (15:1-8).
July 4, 2008 at 8:13 am
Julia Palermo
you guys are so entertaining. thanks. here is a prophetic word for all of you:
Jesus loves you.
Shockingly (to some), Jesus loves Todd Bentley too.
have a nice day.
July 4, 2008 at 8:20 am
John Burton
When Todd Bentley mentioned the Western church not embracing the supernatural, he was right on.
I travel and speak often, and I notice a raging hunger for the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit.
For example, though we are all to prophesy, many (most?) admit that they have never done so. Most have not had a spiritual dream or seen a vision.
We are to both live and walk in the Spirit. The prophetic is a continual experience for believers- we hear God and respond on a step-by-step basis.
I once met a couple who ministered with YWAM in India. I said, “I’m probably going to freak you out, but I have quite a story of deliverance.”
I went on to share a dramatic manifestation of deliverance in a lady who had been deeply involved in witchcraft.
The smiled and told me, “John, we never hear stories like this in America, but in India this happens every day.”
As we pray in tongues, allow the deep groans in our spirit to cry out and allow the Word of God to burn in us like a fire we will see the supernatural manifestation of God explode in this nation.
The extreme manifest presence of God, the tangible and experiential burning of the Holy Spirit, a life of perpetual encounter is to be the biblical norm for believers.
Generally, people will live in at least one of three different ways:
1. Issue Driven Life: We are driven by issues.
2. Principle Driven Life: We all must live here. We apply the perfect, biblical truths to our lives. We tithe, we pray, we serve, we give.
3. Revelation Driven Life: As we live a life founded on scripture, we are in a prime position to receive the continual prophetic instruction from God. We as sheep hear his voice and move accordingly.
As we live a revelation driven life, the Word of God will activate powerfully in our lives. Decisions will be simple. People will hear God. Faith, boldness and power will rise dramatically.
For those who are afraid of hearing the wrong voice (God vs. Satan), simply know that God won’t give you a serpent if you ask for a fish. Know that you are human and the Holy Spirit as your teacher will instruct you over time on how to hear God, how to discern, how to use scripture as the barometer of your progress.
July 4, 2008 at 8:37 am
Kim
Julia,
Yes, Jesus loves us all….That is why it is so painful for some us to see the condition of the church and how it is truly falling away from the Faith. Christians are not reading their Bibles anymore. They are not reading the scriptures and applying the living truth and commandments that are given forth to their daily lives. The words of Jesus are being with replaced with “new” revelations even though the Word of God is complete and inerrant. People are adding and subtracting from God’s Word, even though the Bible clearly forbids this. Therefore we see the resulting mess that is occuring this very day.
I do not find this entertaining at all. Instead my heart is sick inside with grief.
July 4, 2008 at 8:52 am
Kim
“For those who are afraid of hearing the wrong voice (God vs. Satan), simply know that God won’t give you a serpent if you ask for a fish.”
The verse below tells us that some will heed seducing spirits. So indeed we do have to be careful if we are listening to the enemy or God. Doctrine not found in the Bible is also suspect. I put no stock in new revelations because they are doctrines of devils.
1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
John, I know you believe these are the latter times. So in your opinion, ( i have given mine so i would like to hear yours), what doctrine is of Satan, and who is indeed listening to seducing spirits? Keep in mind this passage is about the Church.
July 4, 2008 at 9:02 am
mbaker
John Burton,
You gave three types of possible Christian lives:
Generally, people will live in at least one of three different ways:
“1. Issue Driven Life: We are driven by issues.
2. Principle Driven Life: We all must live here. We apply the perfect, biblical truths to our lives. We tithe, we pray, we serve, we give.
3. Revelation Driven Life: As we live a life founded on scripture, we are in a prime position to receive the continual prophetic instruction from God. We as sheep hear his voice and move accordingly.”
Then you concluded:
“As we live a revelation driven life, the Word of God will activate powerfully in our lives. Decisions will be simple. People will hear God. Faith, boldness and power will rise dramatically.”
Again, this attitude by some charismatics is not only elitist in the extreme, it is not biblical to assume our effectiveness in ministry and in our every day lives is based upon the supposition that we have to necessarily practice the “sign” gifts, in order to be fully functioning Christians. Please show me the scripture that says it is necessary. Spiritual gifts are just some of the tools that Christ has given the church and believers to equip them for ministry. Our roles as effective Christians are in no way incumbent upon the use of the sign gifts, or even having them, whether Todd Bentley thinks so or not. As I said, show me a scripture that says if we don’t use them we are not fully functioning Christians. I am a continuationist, by the way.
I have to tell you that in all my years in ministry in charismatic circles and all the “manifestations” I saw, there was only one healing that I can honestly say was supernaturally and instantly manifested by the laying on of hands. Whereas, I have seen a hundred times more genuine healing come about as a result of God answering simple quiet prayers of individual saints for healing.
To suggest that folks who do not practice the sign gifts, or don’t have them, are less Christian than those who do is blasphemous. It minimizes the cross and puts the emphasis on gifts as the defining factor. To suggest, however subtly, that you folks are the only ones to who live by scripture, and listen to the Lord is certainly not reflected in the attitude in the clip of any the charismatic leaders above, who regularly butcher scripture to fit their own agendas.
July 4, 2008 at 9:31 am
Julia Palermo
here is a bone for you all to chew on…..this has nothing to do with Todd Bentley, the Lakeland Revival or even IHOP where i am a missionary.
about 3 months, God radically healed me in one day of 20 years of illness. this is 20 years of documented severe autoimmune illness for which i had chemotherapy and was on over 10 medications when i was healed. on an ordinary tuesday afternoon i had a vision of Jesus on the cross and all of my pain and fatigue left me in a moment. it was so powerful i almost passed out. now my doctor says my blood tests are normal and i should be off all my meds by the end of the year. i am already off of half of them in a matter of 3 months.
1. i had a vision of Jesus, this did not come from the devil
2. i had an undisputable disease (actually 4 diseases but 1 main one) that is now gone and i’m pretty sure it was the Holy Spirit that touched me that day, not satan.
here is the clincher – a month before i got healed i had a prophetic word telling me that God was going to heal me from someone who didn’t even know i was sick. was the prophetic word extra-biblical or from the devil? no, it was from God who was reassuring me that help was on the way.
Kim – my heart is grieved as well over the condition of a slumbering, fireless church but i just think you all are taking yourselves too seriously and i think there are enough people in this world going to hell that we could busy ourselves reaching out to them rather than arguing and debating with one another.
July 4, 2008 at 9:34 am
John Burton
I would never say someone is less of a Christian if they don’t operate in their giftings. That’s an issue of salvation. I’m talking about an issue of effectiveness.
To discount the laying on of hands, or to minimize it, is to discount biblical instruction.
To live a prophetic life is very important. I often say that it’s thrilling to live a prophetic life, but also critically important. There are so many powerful testimonies of people’s lives that have changed- salvations that have occurred- because someone had a prophetic word for them.
We as sheep must hear God’s voice.
July 4, 2008 at 9:35 am
John Burton
Great post Julia.
July 4, 2008 at 9:53 am
Lee
Julia,
Praise God for your healing!
I don’t think anyone on here is saying God does not heal (this is not in the original post, btw). I myself was healed last year of an affliction which had bothered me for twenty years. I won’t go into details; but, I was able to do something that I had not been able to do for twenty years pain free.
I was praising God for this and then a scripture came to my mind, “I will repay for the years the locusts have eaten.” Now, I could not recall just where that scripture was at the time; and, I wasn’t even sure it was a word from the Lord.
I mentioned this at dinner with friends that evening; but, thought nothing more about it. The next morning in my reading where was I led? To that very verse in Joel 2:25!
July 4, 2008 at 10:12 am
Julia Palermo
lee –
that is awesome! praise the Lord! i was more trying to emphasize the visions and prophecy thing. i never had a vision until recently but people do see Jesus. he manifests Himself to people all of the time. i myself am asking for more than just a vision, i want an actual visitation. i want to talk with Him, face to face. also – i had an angel standing in the doorway to my bedroom when i was about 7 or 8 years old. angelic visitation is a biblical norm.
ok – now i am going to practice what i preach and not spend too much time on here. 😉
p.s. – just cuz’ i can’t resist – it was john burton who gave me the word about my healing.
July 4, 2008 at 10:15 am
Lee
To discount the laying on of hands, or to minimize it, is to discount biblical instruction.
However, one must be careful. It is imperative to know just who is laying hands on you. Kundalini is passed on most often by a touch to the forehead although there are other ways. Bentley’s practices look suspiciously like kundalini and the manifestations are also the same. Is Bentley’s the ‘true’ while kundalini is the false?
I’ll restate some of what I’ve stated earlier to make a point:
1) Bentley claims his healing power comes from William Branham’s angel (although there have been times he credited the power to the Holy Spirit, most times it’s by the angel). Branham is a heretic denying the Trinity while promoting pyramids and horoscope reading in addition to the Bible as the basis for his theology. I wouldn’t want a heretics ‘mantle’ or ‘angel.’
2) Bentley is a known liar as is quite evident in comparing his own writings and his own voice. Here’s a great post on Bentley’s angelology including the conversion of ‘Emma’ to a male or non-gendered angel:
http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2008/07/bentleys-angelogy.html
On either one or both of these points Bentley’s own doctrine and practices are suspect. I would not want him laying hands on me!
And, all those at his “commissiong” look passed all this? One must question their faithfulness to the Truths of our faiths as outlined by Jesus Christ as the Word made flesh.
So, based on all this my original post stands as is. Bentley is false. Those who endorse him are false or blindly deceived.
July 4, 2008 at 10:26 am
Blasphemous Prophecy at Todd Bentleys ‘Ordination’ « Discerning the world
[…] You may proceed here to watch the actual video of blasphemy: https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/george-banovs-blasphemous-prophecy-at-todd-bentleys-ordinat…. […]
July 4, 2008 at 10:27 am
Lee
angelic visitation is a biblical norm.
I agree only in part. Angelic visitation did occur all throughout the Bible; but, it was hardly the norm. There are accounts yes; but, they were not everyday occurrences.
Some OT scholars believe that many times “the angel of the Lord” was pre-incarnate Jesus. This is known as a Theophany. However, one must keep in mind that Jesus has a post-resurrection body. So, it follows that Jesus should not now appear as an angel. Just wanted to point that out.
In addition, and this is important, not once did anyone seek out an angel. In each and every occurrence that I can recall all have appeared unprovoked. It is dangerous to seek after angels because Satan appears as an angel of light:
13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. [2 Corinthians 11:13-15 NIV]
It’s interesting to note that Paul here prefaces verses 14&15 with his words on the false prophets of his day:
4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.” 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way. [2 Corinthians 11:4-6 NIV]
July 4, 2008 at 10:33 am
mbaker
John and Julia,
No one is saying that prophecy isn’t real. Or, that God can’t miraculously heal, either through the laying on of hands or through prayer.
You have concluded:
“I would never say someone is less of a Christian if they don’t operate in their giftings. That’s an issue of salvation. I’m talking about an issue of effectiveness.”
Again I’m not asking for your opinion, but a scripture that says we are not effective Christians if we don’t possess, or choose to practice the sign gifts. Please furnish that for backup. Otherwise, I’ll have to conclude that you’re putting a personal opinion over what God’s word says.
July 4, 2008 at 11:08 am
Calmwhisper
Wow, my head is spinning trying to keep up with what is going on. I am not sure if your still on the Georgian Banov issue, but he used to sing with Silverwind, a christian group from the early 80’s, I think that was the year. Anyway, every time I have heard him minister, he always seem so gentle, genuine and I truly believed he wanted to give and thus the word came forth. He seems to love deeply so maybe you should check out some of the other times he teaches and you may see a different side to the issue. Was he right on, only God can say.
As far as absolutes and nonabsolutes in the scripture, boy have we gotten too big for our britches. God’s word is Holy Spirit inspired. It is a treasure box to be opened and its treasures revealed. All this nonabsolute and absolute kind of cheapens the effect for me. I like the saying from the scriptures, It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the honor of Kings to seek it out. So, I believe the word of God is something glorious that He can use anyway He desires, after all it will never return to HIM void and of no effect.
Well, I probaby will get some statements on this, but I have my son who is autistic home so I may not respond today or at all, so please don’t be offended. I must be about my Father’s business, ministering to my son. Be blessed my dear friends and enjoy your day of Independence.
Oh by the way, your deeply loved, highly favored and irrevokably blessed. Also one more thing, God’s mercy is new for Todd Bentley like it is for us everymorning, maybe we could practice a little.
July 4, 2008 at 11:34 am
Lee
Calmwhisper,
Just because someone seems nice and sincere does not mean they are not sincerely deceived. In the video he does look like a nice guy. But, as the Apostle Paul says:
13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
So, how do we determine who these ‘deceitful workmen’ are? By determining their beliefs and actions to see if they line up with scripture.
…God’s mercy is new for Todd Bentley like it is for us everymorning, maybe we could practice a little.
Yes, our God is gracious! Thankfully! However, we do have to do our part. If Bentley were to repent publicly (he must do this publicly since he is in the public) of his lies, etc. God will be faithful to forgive him. If Bentley were to do this, I’d be one of the first to praise God and Bentley for it.
It is not unmerciful to point out errors in unrepentent individuals as a warning to others. In fact, it is a loving thing to do.
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. [James 5:19-20 NIV]
22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. [Jude 22-23 NIV]
July 4, 2008 at 1:50 pm
John Burton
To not use our spiritual gifts would certainly result in lack of progress, lack of effectiveness. If this wasn’t the case, then spiritual gifts would not be necessary.
1 Timothy 4:14-16 (NKJV)
14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. 15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. 16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
We can’t neglect the gift. We must give ourselves and progress. As we do, others will be greatly affected.
1 Peter 4:10-11 (NKJV)
10 As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
We must steward our gifts well. As we do, God is glorified.
July 4, 2008 at 2:47 pm
calmwhisper
Lee, and to all this may apply to.
First of all, please let the Holy Spirit show you what I am really saying…things get taken so wrong on these blog sites.
Here we go….Oh my goodness Lee, take a chill pill. I know because someone is nice it does not mean they are not decieved, but I hope someone shows you more mercy when you miss it than you showed Georgian, and if your like me, you have missed it. As far as the determining the deceitful workman, it is by their fruits including the fruit of their words, however, if I am not around them enough I cannot judge even their fruits as I do not see them all the time, in their private and more real time and thus do not know their character. I only have read what you wrote and no matter how much scripture you quote (as satan can quote scripture) I do not know your character and how you are in your private life, and would judge you harshely based on your words on here. I really have no real proof that you are even a christian. So, instead of trying to figure this out and thus spending too much time on a blog to accuse you or as you guys say “correct”, I choose to follow the first Corinthians 13 way: I will be patient with you and kind to you. I will not be evious or boast how I am right and your not, even if it is true (just kidding). I will not be rude or self seeking, having what I say means tearing you down or being so caught up in it that I forget to respect what you say and take it wrong. I will not delight in evil (whether it is lying or accusing, etc.) and delight in the truth (that God will always come through no matter what we think or do). I will protect you (are you covering Todd and Georgian, hmmm…nope), trust you (because I know you will do the right thing in the end), and hope in you (because inside of you is the Hope of Glory, even when it is questionable), and the love of God in me will persevere with you during the hardest of times and the harshest of words. In short, love never fails. Look at Todd and Georgian though His eyes. Jesus paid to high a price to not love no matter how bad we want to expose. Don’t excuse what they do if you don’t agree, but dont turn it into a debating scene, because that causes division and makes you look like an accuser of the brethern, making you …well,…satan.
Granted, Todd Bentley is not showing his best side with lying about his tattoos and changing the angels gender and those watching over him do not seem to be showing much wisdom at all, but I dont know what God is doing behind the scenes. I can only be wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove. I can only be what God has created me to be. I have been forgiven much therefore I love much.
You mentioned we should do our part? What exactly is your part. I do believe my part is as follows, those who are spiritual, restore those who have fallen. I know he has not repented publically as of yet and that is why I pray for him. But, what if those same men who prophesy saw something in him that through some correction behind the scenes will bring about the public repentance. What I have read so far in the blog areas concerning all this causes me to find that no one is making any attempts to bring about restoration. Have you written Todd Bentley with your concerns? Georgian with your concerns about that maybe he missed it? May be you should.
Somehow, God saw something in us that made him want us with him so bad that he sacrificed his only son to redeem us back, though we did not deserve it, though we were liars, cheaters, adulterers and thieves and so much more. We could be speaking into his life the life of God instead of constant and steady criticism. Remember, life and death are in the tongue, and out of our hearts our mouths speak. Are you really revealing from your heart your fruit? If I go by that, it is as ugly as Todd’s lies. If someone were to say the things about you that you have said about him, and they not knowing the real you and what God sees in you and has revealed to someone else about you, it would seem like an accusation rather than a correction. (remember, a prophetic word does not mean they will become that any time soon, it may take years) In no way am I saying that what is going on is right, but believe me some people are so hardhearted that they must have their hearts broken from being deceived before they wake up to the truth (boy I can attest to that one big time). Though I do not go with God being in all these things, I do believe that God is behind it whether to bring the church to repentance or to bring about the greater harvest of souls by revealing who he really is and his Grace and his Love, by exposing the lies. God does always take what satan means for evil and turn it to good. Focus on that my precious brother. It aint over until God is through, and he is far from it and there are a lot of people who need to know they can be pulled up and I personally want to present myself as someone faithful for that. Do You?
As far as mercies being new every morning, I was referring since we probably all miss it during the day and want mercy shown to us, we need to practice doing the same thing. I do not watch the Lakeland Outpouring services now. I did watch a couple, and that was all. I felt no need to critize, but did pray and during my prayer time God did reveal that these things are short lived because of this being a wicked and deprived generation, always looking for a sign when God gives them to us all around if we just look. I think I have more mercy because of how many times I have missed it and received mercy. I will say this of the group everyone is in an uproar about, they do know how to show mercy. Some correction would be a great thing I agree, but if I were around you guys for very long, I would stay under condemnation for missing it publicly and I really do not believe God works that way.
I keep getting the sense that I am to say you need to read the book of James as a whole and look at it closely. You will discover something, but you must look at it with a different view point. Ask God to show you a new view. I have read it a couple of times as a whole and will do it also because I believe God wants his letters through his disciples read as a letter and not taken apart piece by piece. I love to find out what He wants to show someone else. I might have missed it here, but if I did, will you have mercy on me?
I have written all this to say how would you want to be treated and talked about while you are going through your time of deception? Do you want someone to speak God into you or constantly cut you down by what you say and do without really knowing you. God has Grace and Goodness towards us because he knows us. When he looks at us, he sees Jesus’ blood covering us. We are the righteousness of God no matter what we say or do. Since you and others have spoke so harsely about Todd during this time of deception, granted you will get your time of deception in order to get that wrinkle out of your bridal cloak. I have had mine ironed a lot, that is why I am soooo cautious. Be good, relax and remember God is in a good mood towards you.
Well, I came on while my son is watching his afternoon movie, so I will conclude and check on him. Tata for now.
July 4, 2008 at 2:49 pm
calmwhisper
Geeze I am longwinded…sorry. I guess I had more to say than I thought.
July 4, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Lee
John,
Bravo! The 1 Peter passage is speaking directly about using the gifts as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 & Romans 12:4-8. One of the things many miss is that the “Love chapter” — 1 Corinthians 13 — is about the proper use of the gifts! Yes, we may and should use it in a broader context regarding our relations with others; but, it’s right there in the middle of Paul’s treatise on spiritual gifts of chapters 12-14.
Yes, we are to use the gifts bestowed upon us wisely for the edification of the body of believers.
Please note in the 1 Timothy passage how strongly Paul is stressing doctrine/teaching by going back to verse 13:
13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.
Yes, study to show thyself approved! I’m certainly not suggesting you are not doing this; but, I say this for the benefit of any who will read this. Doctrine is very important as it forms the basis of our faith! Jesus is the Word made flesh!
Please note that the gift of prophecy is in general to speak under a Divine influence. From Barnes Notes on the New Testament:
(1.) It means to predict, or foretell future events, Matthew 11:13; 15:7.
(2.) To divine, to conjecture, to declare as a prophet might. Matthew 26:68, “Prophesy, Who is he that smote thee.”
(3.) To celebrate the praises of God, being under a Divine influence, Luke 1:67. This seems to have been a considerable part of the employment in the ancient schools of the prophets, 1 Samuel 10:5; 19:20 1 Samuel 30:15.
(4.) To teach–as no small part of the office of the prophets was to teach the doctrines of religion. Matthew 7:22, “Have we not prophesied in thy name?”
I have been researching the Acts 2 passages; and, on Acts 2:17 the Adam Clarke Commentary reads:
The word prophesy is not to be understood here as implying the knowledge and discovery of future events; but signifies to teach and proclaim the great truths of God, especially those which concerned redemption by Jesus Christ.
I do believe that most NT references of prophecy are more of forthtelling/proclaiming rather than foretelling although of course not exclusively so. In Acts when those who received the HS ‘spoke in tongues and prophesied’ it flies in the face of logic to assume they foretold future events but it rather makes better sense that they proclaimed God.
The most abused gift is the one of prophecy. Most believe it’s either solely or mostly about foretelling; and, we have a whole host of these people on the Elijah List who have abysmal track records. I know you disagree with this; but, again, Banov fails as his ‘word’ paints Bentley as Messianic. In addition, these words cannot apply to an unrepentent public liar such as Todd Bentley.
One of the least favored gifts it seems is the gift of discernment — a gift I believe I have. I do not say this to boast — not at all — but, I feel a strong need to warn of false teachings/teachers out there. Going back to the original post, I do believe all these guys (those on stage) are false by using the Word of God as the plumbline.
July 4, 2008 at 3:01 pm
mbaker
John,
I appreciate the scriptures but they are admonishments to use our gifts, they do not say we will be less effective if we don’t have certain ones, or if we don’t use them.
I want to believe that you don’t think all cessationists are less effective Christians. There are many who have wonderfully effective ministries without the use of the sign gifts at all. John Piper and Charles Stanley are two that immediately come to mind. There are countless others.
I gauge the effectiveness of Christians, not by how what Todd Bentley says we should be in the western church, or many gifts we have or use, but how well we live our Christian lives in relation to helping those in need and spreading the gospel. That is not personal opinion, but God’s stated desire for us.
There is a verse in James 1:27 which states:
“Religion which is pure and undefiled before God, is this: to visit widows and orphans in their need, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.” ESV
Now, if I go and visit them, do I go armed with a prophecy? Do I tell them to go to Lakeland and get an impartation for prosperity from Todd Bentley? No, I go with there with something practical they can use. Food, clothes, money or services like mowing a senior’s lawn, or taking the orphaned child out to do something fun. Now which one of those do you think the widow or orphan would think most effective about a Christian, prophecy or practical help that was sorely needed? Just a question to gauge your own effectiveness, based upon that biblical definition, how many widows and orphans have you helped practically lately?
Jesus also warned about getting too hung up on prophecy and miracles, and forgetting what He considers most important:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you; depart from me you workers of lawlessness.” Matthew 7: 21-23
Jesus goes on to to say how he will divide the sheep and the goats at judgement:
” Then the king will say to those on His right, ‘Come , you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from before the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.” (Matthew 25: 34-36)ESV
He goes on to conclude in verse 40:
“Truly I say to you, as you did to one of the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me.”
Now, who do you think Jesus considers the most effective Christian? The Todd Bentley’s of the world who make a big show of their personal “anointing”, as in the clip above, or those who quietly minster to others on a daily basis? You have the answer in Christ’s own words.
July 4, 2008 at 3:22 pm
John Burton
Calmwhisper- that was a GREAT post.
July 4, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Lee
Calmwhisper,
Look at Todd and Georgian though His eyes.
OK, I’ll quote some of Jesus’ own words “Hypocrites!” “Den of Vipers!” “thieves and robbers.”
Here are some more of Jesus’ words:
15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. [Matthew 7:15-20 NIV]
How do we figure out who these false prophets and wolves in sheep’s clothing are? First, the wolves in sheep’s clothing are obviously those who look good on the outside. They must be people within our church body. So, what is a ‘bad tree’ which bears ‘bad fruit?’
First, an individual must line up with the plumbline. Let’s look at Bentley’s mentors:
William Branham — false prophet = bad tree
Bob Jones — False prophet = bad tree
Bentley’s teachings/character:
his healing power comes from Branham’s angel = bad fruit
his continual lying about various things including angels, tattoos = bad fruit
In addition, there has not been ONE substantiated report of actual healing or raising of the dead even though Bentley promised to media. Now he claims he cannot do this due to privacy concerns. Let me tell you, if I was raised from the dead I would be there with death certificate in hand praising God on stage!
July 4, 2008 at 3:33 pm
John Burton
Actually, I know someone personally that was dramatically healed at Lakeland. Great, great fruit.
July 4, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Lee
You mentioned we should do our part? What exactly is your part.
Our part is to live by the Spirit rather than the flesh. Our part is to repent when we sin against God and man.
Overall, it seems you really miss the point. Since Jesus is the Word made flesh, it is obvious He thinks it’s very important!
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. [John 14:23-24 NIV]
The whole “ordination” ceremony was about man. Jesus’ name was only reference a few times. But, to say this ceremony was in Jesus’ name is a mockery! Jesus will never ordain an unrepentent liar! I’ve tried to show you how this is false yet you wish to continue to excuse the behavior of these individuals. These folks are leading the flock astray!
You don’t have to believe me. I do not expect you to. But, line up what I’m saying to the Word of God. Have I lied here? I’m merely pointing out lies and inconsistencies in the individuals in the posts. My intent is simply to warn others of this. I firmly believe this is part of the great apostasy warned of by Jesus and the other NT writers.
July 4, 2008 at 3:45 pm
mbaker
John,
Do you, as a man of God, really think calling a fellow Christian satan, because they are using scripture to expose false teaching is “great”?
Calmwhisper,
I’m afraid you come across as anything but calm. Your comments were much more vicious than anything that has been said by the author here. Can’t you present a better case than calling a fellow brother in Christ satan? You seriously need to take your own advice.
July 4, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Lee
John,
Even if someone is healed what does that really prove? Satan can perform signs and wonders; and, God himself can heal anyone, anywhere, anytime as He alone is Sovereign. Look at shamen and witch doctors. And, what about Sai Baba? And, even Branham — if we are to believe he healed. Branham was clearly not a Christian as his doctrine, false prophecies, etc. attest to.
I’m not denying your account of healing; but, absent of proof, I cannot blindly believe it either.
July 4, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Lee
calmwhisper,
Since you and others have spoke so harsely about Todd during this time of deception, granted you will get your time of deception in order to get that wrinkle out of your bridal cloak. I have had mine ironed a lot, that is why I am soooo cautious.
So, I’m the one deceived? You apparently have little regard for the Word of God, the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of Truth. Doctrine divides.
33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34″Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. [Matthew 10:33-34 NIV]
These men mock a mockery of Jesus and His Words and you defend them. I’m here to defend Jesus and His Word.
July 4, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Lee
I only have read what you wrote and no matter how much scripture you quote (as satan can quote scripture) I do not know your character and how you are in your private life, and would judge you harshely based on your words on here.
Yes, Satan did quote scripture — out of context, just like these guys like to do — and what was Jesus’ reply? To quote scripture in context! The Sword of the Spirit!
Yes, you can make your judgment of me by words here. I speak the truth. The truth sometimes is harsh. Again, look at Jesus’ own words. Look at Paul’s. Look at Peter’s.
One who lies is by definition a liar. One who blasphemes is by definition a blasphemer.
July 4, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Julia Palermo
it’s the 4th of july, i suggest everyone go marvel at the pretty lights bursting in the sky.
(unless you think fireworks are evil, then stay home and don’t have fun!)
July 4, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Kim
Lee,
You are so right. God’s Word, God’s written Word is not popular today. That is why many are embracing the “new”prophetic word. What a pull of pride it is to feel “special”, to feel as though one is receiving a special anointing not available to others.
How do i know this? I fell into the same trap. When a “prophecy” i received did not come to pass, i knew something was wrong. I prayed for the truth…I realized i let myself be deceived. And i had passed on a “word” to someone else, instead of relying on the Bible’s truth. I had to contact this person and confess to them what had happened. I was wicked to allow this to happen and I would have been even more wicked had i not repented and turned away from this sin.
This is why i walk in faith. This is why i read my Bible and pray every day. This is why I do not go beyond what is written.
I could see by reading my Bible and asking for truth in prayer that i was in error. I expect this of anyone who teaches.
The Bible is pretty clear that the teachers will be held to a higher standard.
I applaud Lee his courage to speak the truth, and to contend for the Faith (Jude 3) and to “snatch others from the fire.” (Jude 23)
July 4, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Julia Palermo
guys, we are all so weak and broken and don’t even know our own spiritual barreness. let’s ask for revelation on that. we aren’t even in the beginning stages of knowing Jesus. we are better served seeking His face and reading His Word than tearing down one another.
kim – i understand being hurt by the prophetic. as with all ministries, the prophetic can be misused and abused. we must make sure all prophecies absolutely do not contradict scripture! we can even ask God to confirm a word by 2 or 3. also, a true prophetic word will resonate in you, it will usually confirm something God has already been speaking to you.
the most important thing is that a prophetic word is not a guarantee, it’s an invitation. we must pray over and contend for the prophetic promises over our life instead of thinking that all things are fated to happen and we have no partnership with God in how our lives turn out. a prophetic word is always an opportunity to pour over the Word and have a conversation with God, it is not the end all of instruction and direction on our lives. it is not fortune telling about future events. it’s an invitation from God to the place of prayer.
and remember – paul exhorted us that we should desire to prophesy above all other gifts. case closed.