Sunday, I noticed in our church bulletin that there was to be a movie presented that Tuesday night. It was called Prince of Slaves. Never hearing about this movie before I went on-line but couldn’t find any information about it. I did not attend.
Wednesday I received a gang email to our church that read like this.
Thanks to all of you who came to “Movie Night”
For those of you who weren’t able to come, I just HAVE to share a couple of things I learned from Nil***ur, (rhymes with Jennifer), a Muslim lady who works with *******, and the movie, Prince of Slaves! Nil***ur was very friendly, outgoing, and informative.
First, Nil***ur did not wear any head-covering
because she said the Koran says to dress modestly so
as not to be a distraction to men, especially when
they’re supposed to be praying and worshipping. She
said the Taliban and the Wahabi sect in Saudi Arabia
are extremists in their treatment of women–they are
not true representatives of Islam. Saudi Arabia is
not a Democracy, and the Royal Family maintains
power by cooperating with the extremists. (Almost all the
terrorists involved in 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia,
none from Iraq, and were trained in Afganistan,
which she said has been badly affected by invasions of the
Russians, etc.)
Second, she said “jihad” means the personal struggle
to follow God. Killing is only allowed in the Muslim
faith during a war. “Islam means PEACE and Muslim
means “SUBMITTED TO GOD”! Obviously, some of them
do not follow that, but sometimes I don’t think we
Christians follow our Savior perfectly either! (My
thought, not Nillofour’s!) Also, the Koran is a lot like our Bible, according
to Nillofour’s Christian friends. She urged us to get
an English version of the Koran from the library and
read it to see for ourselves.
Lastly, when asked why the vast majority of moderate
Muslims do not speak out more to condemn terrorism,
she said that usually doesn’t make it to the front
pages or the evening news.
Thanks for reading if you’re still with me. I was
just SO excited to see this historically accurate
documentary and to meet such a lovely lady who also
happened to be a Muslim!
**********
I had to read these paragraphs a couple of times.
Second, she said “jihad” means the personal struggle
to follow God. Killing is only allowed in the Muslim
faith during a war. “Islam means PEACE and Muslim
means “SUBMITTED TO GOD”!
Also, the Koran is a lot like our Bible, according
to Nil***ur’s Christian friends. She urged us to get
an English version of the Koran from the library and
read it to see for ourselves.
Was i dreaming?…..Were these statements going uncontested in my evangelical church?
Okay..so i found an English version of the Koran on-line. Here are some quotations I found.
2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.”
5:72-73: They do blaspheme who say: “God is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with God, – God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrongdoers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
8:12-15 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” This because they contended against God and His Apostle: If any contend against God and His Apostle, God is strict in punishment. Thus (will it be said): “Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist God, is the penalty of the Fire.” O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.
First off, these Koran verses do not sound very peaceful to me…what do you think?
Then it states that those who say that Jesus is Christ, the Son of Mary… is a blasphemer. And then the trinity is denied.
It goes on to say:
5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary is but an apostle:
The Koran is not at all like the Bible. Christianity is based on Jesus Christ going to the Cross for our Salvation, and that He is the Son of God, not merely an apostle……!
Then I took a look at the people who produced the movie. Unity Productions Foundation. Anything with the name unity is suspect to me anymore. Their main cause is to “serve the cause of peace of understanding. Comprehending Islam values is of central importance to cause of peace of understanding.”
I found one of many organizations that support their work is the Kingdom Foundation which is a close alliance of “A Common Word.” A Common Word is an outlandish agreement that Muslims and Christians are on similar ground because we worship the same God. This is ridiculous.
So I am saddened because no one that I know of questioned this email. Did anyone in our congregation bother to investigate this claim put forth in our church? How is it that a Muslim comes into our church and reaches out to us but no one tell this woman the truth? I am sure she is a wonderful and lovely person, but that does not save her soul. Do I have some distorted view of what a church is?
This was the response I received when I asked if this woman was presented the Gospel in our church.
She didn’t really
talk about her personal faith; our discussions were
more about cultural things.
I think we do need to develop relationships in order
to lead people to a relationship with the Lord.
Yes, I agree that we have to reach out to the lost, but develop a relationship with them? I thought we were not be yoked with unbelievers and that we were to be separate.
Without knowing the scriptures and at least a working knowledge of other religions then we as the church are doomed. Will we follow any suggestion unquestioned? What if there were any baby Christians at “movie night”? What if there were some attending who are confused about their faith?
http://www.upf.tv/upf06/Films/PrinceAmongSlaves/tabid/77/Default.aspx
I am probably over-reacting. Am I intolerant? I certainly hope so. I pray so.
DiscernIt 
26 comments
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May 15, 2008 at 10:40 am
Mary B.
No you are not over reacting Kim. I had no idea that the Koran called us who hold to the trinity blasphemers. I am sure the day is coming that when the pressure is on, a muslim will consider it a great service to God to kill the blasphemers. As will those who follow the antichrist.
May 15, 2008 at 11:46 am
Endtimes Techno-Boogie « Objective 514
[…] the way we construct news and react to disasters. The ‘net, for better or worse, has made religious and scientific discussion endemic – and often […]
May 15, 2008 at 11:53 am
Movies » The Koran Is A Lot Like Our Bible?
[…] Paul Kedrosky’s Infectious Greed wrote an interesting post today on The Koran Is A Lot Like Our Bible? Here’s a quick excerpt…movie presented that Tuesday night. It was called Prince of Slaves. Never hearing about this movie … Thanks to all of you who came to… […]
May 15, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Kim
Thanks Mary,
This was the first time i had looked at the Koran…..Christians that do not submit to compromise will indeed by persecuted.
May 16, 2008 at 8:16 am
Lee
She didn’t really talk about her personal faith…
She most certainly did according to the email you received in which she explained what “jihad” and “Islam” mean and her encouragement to all to read the Koran.
No, you are not over-reacting. The question is: what do you do now? How far do you take your opposition to the movie and the surrounding events?
One of the reasons I haven’t found a church home is that I cannot find one that does compromise something or other. I understand there are no perfect churches, for if there were and I started to attend it would no longer be perfect! I’m in a quandary.
May 16, 2008 at 8:46 am
John
interchanging Allah with “God” is the first step into Synchretism with Islam.
The ‘god” of Islam “Allah” is not the God of the Bible.
Islam actually means Submission, it does not mean peace.
Jihad literally means “struggle” full stop!
I used to teach classes on Islam.
What your church is doing is taking the first steps into a fallen pragmatic approach towards those of the Muslim Faith. This man made methodology stresses approaching people of other religions by first finding the common ground between the two faiths, in this case “Occam’s Razor” is used to come to the conclusion that since “Islam” is considered a monotheistic religion and Christianity is a monotheistic faith, then therefoe they must worship the same “god” and that is used as a starting point to build a common ground for “understanding” and “dialogue” between the two religions.
However the One True God is known by his attributes! “Allah” cannot be the One True God because his attributes are diametrically opposed to the Attributes of the One True God of the Bible.
Also the Qur’an is nothing like the Bible. The Qur’an is the result of a mixing of many different influences from Heretical Christian & Jewish sects, and Pagan religious ideologies that existed in the Arabian Desert in the 5th and 6th centuries A.D.
Heretical Christian sects flourished in the Arabian desert at that time because they were banned from the Byzantine Empire.
Always remember: A Dialogue is a conversation that compromises a position. A Debate is an argument that clarifies a position.
We have been brainwashed in this day and age that the word “argue” is a dirty word. You can have Biblical Justification for a civil argument to clarify and defend your Christian Faith!
Jesus Said in Matthew 5:22:
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
Notice it says: “without a cause” there are Biblically justified causes for being angry at someone, its just how you express that righteous anger that matters. You hold to your beliefs and speak the truth!
Remember the final Anti-Christ will come via a tyranny of “Peace”
Jesus Said in Matthew 10:34-39
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”
And that “sword” is the word of God spoken to a dying world, not a sword of military strength or Physical domination of others which is what Islam teaches! Islam has a unique view of what “peace” is. It teaches that the only people who are “at peace” are those who are in full submission to “Allah” and that countries and individuals who have not submitted themselves to “Allah” must be “liberated” by force if necessary from their “rebellion” against Allah, and their bondage to that “rebellion”. Force is a valid avenue of conversion for Islam. As “Allah” requires submission. He has no personal attributes as the One True God of the Bible. He is an unknowable force and will!
Islam considers ALL countries that are not governed by Islamic Sharia Law, and Islamic Jurists as in rebellion against “Allah” and who must be brought into submission to “Allah” by any means necessary!
So the sword that Jesus spoke of is diamtetrically opposed to the type of Sword that Islam uses to make people submit to “Allah”
Jesus Sword is his Word! The Bible!
“Allah’s” Sword is the sword of destruction and domination! i.e Satan!
THERE IS NO Similarities between The Bible and the Qur’an
One is Truth, the other is a counterfeit by Satan!
God Bless! And “stand fast in the faith that was first delivered unto You”!
John Baker
May 16, 2008 at 9:06 am
John
The correct Quote:
A debate is a conflict which clarifies a position. A dialogue is a conversation which compromises a position.”
–John E. Ashbrook, The New Neutralism II, P. 7
May 16, 2008 at 3:38 pm
JeN
I was just telling a friend about your experience and he said something very similar had happened to him. Some group that he is a part of had brought in a Muslin man to talk about how wonderful Islam is and how it is compatible with Christianity. He is kind of outspoken and voiced his opinion. He is now an outcast because he said something. He commented on how it seems that very few people have clue what is going on, the rest just go along with the crowd and the false teachings. It is pretty disgusting.
May 16, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Kim
I want to thank you all for your input…
I pretty much made my view known and tried to do it with love because i know these people and they mean well. They are full of the love of the Lord.
I will not back down though, but i haven’t talked with enough folks yet to get a feel for their positions. Only one person e-mailed me back with the same concern for deceit in the church….not very good odds. Maybe i will become an outcast because i will not go along with the crowd..
Lee you are right, there are no perfect churches and i am sure you would be a great addition to any congregation, no matter how you jest!
May 17, 2008 at 6:56 am
Mary B.
yes Lee,
I agree with Kim, you would be a great asset to any congregation- I wish you were a member of my congregation.
May 18, 2008 at 10:36 am
Lee
Kim & Mary B.,
Thanks for your vote of confidence; but, I’m just not so sure I’m SUPPOSED to be in a given “church” just now. I’m sure in God’s timing…
May 18, 2008 at 10:49 am
Lee
Maybe i will become an outcast because i will not go along with the crowd..
This is certainly a possibility. I hope it doesn’t happen to you. However, we know the Word divides. This has been part of my problem with finding a church home; that is, finding one that doesn’t water down the Truth in some way or another (or one that promotes extra-biblical stuff) and then acting like it’s no big deal when confronted in a loving, professional manner. There’s more specifics I could go on about, in fact much more; but, I’ll leave it at that for now.
I’ve not ever been asked to leave any church for any reason; so, it’s not that I’m (that) rebellious. I’ve always left of my own accord.
May 20, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Jessie
I entirely agree with you. The Qur’an and Bible are nothing alike. I’ve had lots of “Christians” trying to tell me otherwise. It’s very disappointing. I invite you to check out my blog post if you have time. There is currently a discussion on this topic going on and I would love to hear your two cents.
May 20, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Kim
Jessie,
Thank you for your comment….Yes i have read the post….very good! But i am on my way out the door for a week and will consider your post more carefully before i respond. I encourage others to take a look.
May 20, 2008 at 8:50 pm
mbaker
Lee,
We were in your quandry of not being able to find the “perfect” church, and finally decided on one of the new Calvary Chapels in our area. They do preach verse by verse from the word of God, and I find that most edifying and educational in this era of “pick and choose your own variety of religion, and it’s all okay, as long as it doesn’t offend anyone.” Blessings in your search. Blogging is fine, and I for one have learned a lot from it , but it is no substitute for a local church, where you have personal interaction, and instruction. I urge you to find one as soon as possible.
Kim,
I have often asked myself the same questions. Why are moderate Muslims not speaking out against beheadings, bombings of innocents and other similar atrocities? It can only be because they are believing the Koran, not rejecting the extremist view of it. I hope I am wrong, but I think they are ruled by fear of what will happen to them if they dare speak out, not the faith of the martyrs who preserved the tenets of our faith no matter what the personal cost. I pray we modern day Christians are not falling into the paralyzing trap of fear, and will trust God by continuing to speak out.
God bless.
May 20, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Lee
mbaker,
Thanks for the encouragement. I am currently facilitating a study at a friend’s home; so, I “do not forsake the assembling.” I’m thankful to have these friends (and others). And, we were just discussing this evening that the next study (at my suggestion) would be done verse by verse in (likely) one of the Pauline letters.
May 20, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Kim
Lee,
Gathering together in the home, is an option that one hears about quite abit these days. Home churches can offer a good solution. Especially if you are meeting with those of like mind. But Mary’s concerns are valid. But again we are the church not the building. My pastor has expressed dismay at the time that is taken up by meetings and councils when what he truly wants to do is praise and worship our Lord.
May 20, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Lee
Kim,
Thanks for the vote of encouragement. I would REALLY like to meet with others who are more “spiritually mature” than I am; but, it’s really difficult to find individuals who 1) have the time/inclination and/or 2) are not caught up in false teachings themselves.
I’m relatively new in the faith having accepted Christ less than 10 years ago. However, there are so many online study tools that one can learn quite a bit by utilizing just these resourse and simply reading scripture on their own. And, if you get others in a small group to bounce thoughts around on, everyone can grow.
May 20, 2008 at 11:49 pm
livingjourney
Just to clear up something
In the orthodox tradition of Islam, the world is divided into two components: dar al-Islam, the house of Islam and dar al-Harb, the house of war.
Therefore when any Muslim says…
It means that war like Jihad in a country that is considered as dar al-Harb war like Jihad is not only permitted but is expected.
The London-based Arabic language daily Asharq Al-Awsat interviewed Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi on July 19, 2003, where he said:
“It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al-Harb [the Domain of Disbelief where the battle for the domination of Islam should be waged] is not protected.”[3]
Also, in an interview conducted in July 2003 by the Egyptian newspaper Al-Haqiqa, Dr. Sheikh Ali Gomaa said:
“…it is permitted to kill him, because he is a Harbi and the Harbi spreads corruption throughout the face of the earth.”[4]
May 24, 2008 at 2:10 pm
NWProdigal
Hey Kim! It’s been a while, but I couldn’t pass up on a comment here.
This lady who speakes about what the Muslim woman told her sounds like she is greatly uninformed about a lot of things. Russia, for instance, invaded Afghanistan in the 80’s! It’s not news, but rather somewhat ancient history.
But, the suggestion by the Muslim woman for us to go get an English version of the Koran, is, in Islam, a blasphemous suggestion. Muslims believe that the Quran is only pure if it remains in the Arabic language. They are quite as fanatical about this as are the King James Only crowd. I.e., if you want to know what it says, learn the language it’s written in!
Of course, we know that God reveals His truth in many languages and translations, else the Lamb of God would not have people from every tribe and nation, would He?
There are far too many people who will compromise the gospel in order to make peace. But, Jesus said He came to bring a sword and that we would be persecuted if we stay faithful tp the Word.
May 30, 2008 at 2:06 am
what are bible verses in the koran called
[…] to me??what do you think? …. I had no idea that the koran called us who hold to the trinity …https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/the-koran-is-a-lot-like-our-bible/Versus In the Bible/Koran that call for Violence? Please give verses in …What that has to do with […]
June 6, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Seed
For me koran is not a lot like Bible.Why? The answer is simple,koran is simply a word of man that confusses the faith of the believers of this book,and a book that contradict itself in many aspects. And i also want to clarrify one of the most missunderstand teaching about the word “Trinity”,a teaching about God being the father,the Son and the Holy Spirit as one which is not true,because it was never recorded and said thats how the Trinity explain and infact i dont even know where in hell did they got this idea.I dont believe in trinity and i will never believe such things well in fact Jesus never made Himself equall to His Father.and about the Holy Spirit is exactly the Spirit of God perhaps one of the seven Spirit of God but one thing is for sure They are not one.Bible is a more unique in many ways,it is a book like no other.Didnt you notice it is the only book that was attact in so many ways,criticize and questioned in a way like no other books had gone through.That explain why bible is the greatest book of all from the time it begun and no there is no doubt about.There saying Koran is the same as the bible,i would say 100% there is no prove that they are the same.Koran is a book full of doubt deceit and false teaching,and this only one proof of the emergence of false teacher and their teachings as it phropecied in the Bible.Its words is as sweet as the Honey but it will turn bitter inside their belly.
October 27, 2008 at 8:16 am
drew
kim –
i appreciate your transparency in writing. i do struggle some with how we relate to people of the Islamic faith. i don’t know the best way to do that or how to care about them with the love that Christ can offer, but i am working on it.
one of the ways that i’m struggling through this process is to make sure that i draw stark distinctions between those who hold to the radical forms of Islam and those who hold to a more traditional form. as a Christian, i could pull some scriptures out of the Old Testament that are just as angry and call for us to kill those in the land. most of us would say those are historical though, much like many traditional Muslims would say the words you are reciting are historical.
there are people from all faith traditions that use the power that “religion” brings to do harm to others. Christians have participated in that in the past as well (Crusades, etc) and we must repent for the pain we inflicted. even so, we must be cautious to write off all Muslims. we are both part of the Abrahamic tradition and we must celebrate that and learn to care for those who believe differently with the compassionate love that Christ gives. thanks for starting this conversation, kim.
&rew
October 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Kim
Hi Drew,
Yes it is a struggle to relate to those who are Muslim. But with all people the process is the same. We are to give out and share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and it is the Holy Spirit that does the rest.
There are two covenants regarding the two sons of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, and of course the Arabs of today are sons of Ishmael.
Ishmael’s mother Hagar represents the Mosaic covenant that was made with the Jews. Isaac was born of divine intervention and his mother represents a new covenant that man is justified by grace through faith.
Galations 4:22-31 refers to Abraham’s two sons and Paul explains to the Galations the choice they had.
I know what you are saying about the violence of the OT but God is also a God of judgment. And people like to refer to the Crusades and the Inquisition as the result of religious strife. But true Christians, those who follow Christ are asked to lay down their lives for Jesus, not kill.
I guess we need to continue to give out the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. We also need to be in daily Bible study so that we can know the scriptures to defend our faith and share it with others.
Muslims have no way for salvation. Not that i know of anyway.
November 6, 2008 at 12:43 pm
drew
kim –
thanks for your response. your tone here seems different and i appreciate that. my comments were more to say that there are many people who claim to be muslim who do not agree with the ‘holy war’ mentality that is so often expressed about the islamic faith. just as you and i would say that we do not agree with the crusader mentality that was prevalent hundreds of years ago. sometimes we try and lump all muslims in one category forgetting that, like in the christian faith, there are many different variations and interpretations of scripture.
i truly appreciate your comment on the holy spirit. i think we often value our words over the simple nudging of the holy spirit. that certainly does not mean i am not to share what i believe, but that i must realize that nothing i say is going to change a persons mind. its not me that does that, it’s the holy spirit! i often forget this. sometimes befriending without the prior expectation of conversion is the only way to truly care for someone the way that Christ would call us to. it is the holy spirit that changes the heart.
thanks for the good dialogue, kim. i appreciate your heart and passion.
&rew
September 10, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Troy Spudis
Hiya Troy Spudis here. Have you ever thought about publishing an e-book or guest authoring on other sites? I have a blog centered on the same ideas you discuss at https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/the-koran-is-a-lot-like-our-bible and would love to have you share some stories/information. I know my readers would appreciate your work. If you’re even remotely interested, feel free to shoot me an e mail.