This article is from Earthquake Resurrection
Episcopalian Bishops Apologize for Proselytizing Hindus
The march of the eastern mystery religions of demons into America continues.This time the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, issued a statement of apology to the Hindu religious community for centuries-old acts of religious discrimination by Christians, including attempts to convert them.Episcopalians hold an Indian Rite Mass with Hindus and apologize for past religious discrimination.
In a service at “St. John’s Cathedral” in downtown Los Angeles, a Hindu nun blew into a conch shell three times, calling the gatherers to worship.Check out this quote by the Episcopal leaders:
“I believe that the world cannot afford for us to repeat the errors of
our past, in which we sought to dominate rather than to serve. In this
spirit, and in order to take another step in building trust between our
two great religious traditions, I offer a sincere apology to the Hindu
religious community.”
This sickening mixture of apostate Christianity and Hinduism also included the following:
- All were invited to Holy Communion, after the Episcopal celebrant elevated a tray of consecrated Indian bread, and deacons raised wine-filled chalices.
- Christians and Hindus lined up for communion, but since Orthodox Hindus shun alcohol, they consumed only the bread. During the service, the two faiths also blended practices during the handling of an icon of Jesus.
- Kneeling before an icon of Jesus at the altar while the icon was anointed with sandalwood paste by the Episcopalians.
- A flowered garland was placed on it and a lamp was lighted, a sign of Christ, the light in the darkness.
- Both Hindu and Christian texts were read.
What must the Lord Jesus Christ be thinking as he sits at the right hand of God? What an incredible lack of discernment. It is unfathomable how anyone who has read the Word of God can behave in this way. Lord, have mercy on them that they overcome their deception and serve the true living God.
Okay next view this video also from ER- it is only about 1 minute.
Hindu Temple Invades Sugarland, Texas
DiscernIt 
18 comments
Comments feed for this article
February 27, 2008 at 11:25 am
Chris
What must the Lord Jesus Christ be thinking as he sits at the right hand of God?
I would imagine he is relieved that people are seeing that religion is not about dividing people and bringing hatred, but about bringing people together. God is above our petty divisions and partisan groups.
February 27, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Kim
Jesus Christ said in John 14:6 “I am the the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
I think this is pretty clear that Jesus Christ is the only way. The Trinity rules out the many Hindu gods.
February 27, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Bonnie
The truth divides those that are outside of it from those who are within it. Truth has the ability to both divide and unite. Christ came to bring peace to those who follow Him, and division between those who have chosen the truth and those who have rejected it. The truth is narrow and concise, exclusive by nature. The truth is embodied in the person of Christ alone – He is the sum-total of truth in both nature and practice. There is no other who can make this claim. To deny this in a practical way by doing what this organization has done is to deny the Christian faith. “I will have no other gods before me”.
February 28, 2008 at 9:07 am
Kim
Bonnie,
Very well put…To blend Christianity with other religions is to deny the importance of what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Those who are indifferent to the Cross will readily accept the new age religion of the end-times. Unregenerate Christians are also in the same danger.
This article is definite proof of the apostasy predicted in the Bible. This short video from Earthquake Resurrection:
http://earthquakeresurrection.blogspot.com/2008/02/hindu-temple-invades-texas.html
is hands down proof that a temple can be erected to pagan idols in the states, can co-exist and be accepted by the community.
February 28, 2008 at 9:52 am
Chris
Bonnie said:
He [Jesus] is the sum-total of truth in both nature and practice. There is no other who can make this claim.
Actually it is a claim that is made by many. In the Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10:4-5 Krishna says:
Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, self-control and calmness, pleasure and pain, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy are created by Me alone.
Others see Shiva as the supreme Godhead:
“His form is everywhere:
All-pervading in His Shiva-Shakti:
Chidambaram is everywhere, everywhere His dance:
As Shiva is all and omnipresent,
Everywhere is Shiva’s gracious dance made manifest.”
Similar claims are made by others. How can this be. The truth is that God is absolute, beyond comprehension. In Hinduism there is one God, who can appear in many forms, Shiva, Ganesha, Krishna, or even Jesus or Allah. God revels himself in different ways, as ishta devata. The claim of exclusivity is why I am no longer a Christian. I know that God is good and merciful, and a good merciful God would not punish most of humanity for eternity because they worshiped him in a different way.
February 28, 2008 at 10:33 am
Kim
Chris,
When i read your comment the first thing that came to mind was rebellion. I can relate to this because i have had to deal with rebellion in my own life.
I went to I Samuel 15:23
“Rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.”
To rebel against God is to deny the true God His rightful place in our hearts and lives. Rebellion against Jesus Christ is denying that He is at the right hand of God.
You are rejecting the Word of God. You are not merely worshiping him in another or different way. You are woshiping false gods and idols.
God is a God of mercy, but He will come back someday soon as a God of judgment.
February 28, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Chris
Kim,
Firstly I would like to say that I admire you for allowing dissenting comments on your blog. So many bloggers will not allow any comments that don’t agree with their point of view.
I am not rebelling, it is a realization of God’s nature that shaped my spiritual journey. There are many reasons that I find Hinduism is a better path than Christianity (some are in my blog), but I acknowledge that there are other paths and some people may take different ones from me. I believe that judgment comes to us through Karma, but if judgment comes in some other form then I am prepared to stand and be judged by my beliefs. Hinduism teaches us to love God, and to treat everyone as God (friend and enemy alike), an Ideal that I do not fully live up to but I try.
To me it seems that understanding between religions is a good thing, once we accept that we have different beliefs and are not going to change then surely the best thing is to accept that and get on.
Chris
February 28, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Mary
Chris,
There is a big difference between acknowledging that others have the right to worship as they choose and reinventing christianity by merging it with other religions. What is described above in Kim’s post is a complete distortion of real Christianity. Jesus said “I am the way the truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through me.” Youhave the right to worship as you choose but there is nothing in the Bible that says your way is another way to God or that it is acceptable to combine different beliefs.
February 28, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Kim
Hi Chris,
All eastern religions yokes oneself with an impersonal God, to become enlightened – to find one’s true self- that they are God. All occult practices have similar results…One is of God, one is God, God is in all, etc. (Panthesim, Panentheism).
The Bible teaches that all divination is detestable. Why? Satan comes as a white light deceiving the world. This is happening before our very eyes, and the Bible even predicts that there will be a one-world religion at the end-times. So….who are you going to follow? Jesus Christ? It doesn’t sound like it. You are choosing a different path. One that is described in Matthew as the broad path. This path leads to destruction.
Those who truly walk with Jesus Christ know Him as a personal Savior. One who walks in faith is given the Holy Spirit. How do we know if we have the Holy Spirit? Easy…it makes us grieve over our sin. This is what leads to repentance. We can’t live up to God’s standard no matter how hard we try or how many good deeds we do. That is why Jesus died on the Cross.. in His mercy and love He gave us a way to salvation.
Thank you for your kind comments. Indeed i like to hear what others say, and actually it really deepens my faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
I do not want destruction for you…i want God to save your soul.
February 29, 2008 at 1:32 am
chris
Kim,
All eastern religions yokes oneself with an impersonal God, to become enlightened – to find one’s true self- that they are God.
This is partly true, but God is both impersonal as Brahman and personal as an ishta devata. When I see the beauty of the world, or the light of another person I acknowledge the impersonal Brahman. When I worship Shiva I am with a personal God.
How do we know if we have the Holy Spirit? Easy…it makes us grieve over our sin.
I can assure you that Hinduism does the same, and more. It gives true direction, motive and means to improve and do better.
Thank you for your kind comments. Indeed i like to hear what others say, and actually it really deepens my faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
I agree with you on this, in my view if you are worried that your faith won’t stand some other opinions or be able to answer some points then you should probably be examining your own faith rather than posting about it! In my blog I have found that I have to vet the first comment from each poster to avoid drug company adverts and posts that are just rude with no question or comment, but I do post any genuine comment.
I do not want destruction for you…i want God to save your soul.
In my opinion if you truly believe in the goodness and mercy of God then you should not have to worry about this. Why should god condemn any seeker, whatever path they find?
Mary,
What is described above in Kim’s post is a complete distortion of real Christianity.
As an outsider I think that this is a very real problem for the Anglican church. When someone like the Bishop mentioned above comes to realize that there is more than one way to God (or from your view abandons the basics of Christianity), should he still be a member of the Church or not. I think it is a very real possibility that the Anglican church may split over this, and other issues such as gay priests. From what I have read, worldwide a very large majority of Anglicans take the traditional view, and would not allow these liberal ideas. In Britain (where I live) the vast majority are liberal.
Britain will not be affected much by a split anyway, religion is irrelevant to the majority of people and the Church of England is established by the state, so the state can decide what path the church will take. America would be most affected by a split because the numbers are pretty even (though Northern churches tend to be more liberal and Southern more traditional).
I once worked with a Jewish man who was a member of a progressive synagogue. He remarked to me that he had more in common with my beliefs and those of liberal Christians than he did with orthodox Judaism. I think it is the same situation for people like the Bishop above. I would suspect that he would be more at home attending Aarti in my Mandir, or a service in a progressive synagogue, than he would be attending a fundamentalist, traditional Episcopal service. It is no surprise that traditional Anglicans are not happy with his attitudes or his speaking on their behalf, I do understand how you must feel betrayed by his statement.
A split will be a traumatic thing, with some congregations going one way and some another, and some members feeling betrayed. There will even be some families that were united in a religion finding that they feel loyalties to different sides of the split. Everyone knows this, so I think the movement will hold together for as long as it can, but the differences are so great that I think its inevitable.
Chris
February 29, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Kim
This statement verifies my main concern about human divinty.
Vasudha Narayanan writes:
“Perhaps more than any other religious tradition, Hinduism recognizes divinity in human beings. Many spiritual teachers are considered to be souls who have ascended to be one with the supreme being; others think of holy men and women as the descent of the divine being to earth. For some disciples, the teachers are even more important than God. The Upanishadic dictum (Taittiriya Upanishad) to treat your teacher as God is well known by millions of Hindus.”
If one is God can you forgive your own sin? Is man really “more important than God.”?
Man is sinful since the fall of man, and God provided a way for forgiveness of sin and salvation, through Jesus Christ. God will condemn those who reject this salvation. God is loving to those who accept His Son and His atoning sacrifice. What awesome love this is. What sorrow… that many reject Christ because they believe that they are in control of their own destinies.
I once read….If your son drowned trying to save a person and that person rejected this loving act, how ungrateful this person would be, how indifferent. What if he gave himself credit for saving himself? This is self-divinity. This is deception.
People always complain about the condition of the world today. How about the conditions in India? Are the Hindu gods loving? How are the gods of the third world faring?
Jesus Christ has always been rejected by the majority, hence the condition of the world today….The United States claims to be a Christian nation. Maybe it was at one time but no longer. True Christians are hard to find these days, even in the churches.
February 29, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Bonnie
Chris, I will restate something I wrote, because it is very important in distinguishing Christ above all others as the ONLY divine human being to ever walk this earth, and the ONLY way to God. This is a bold claim, but I make it with confidence as I have examined the evidence and come to the conclusion that there is no other alternative.
“The truth is embodied in the person of Christ alone – He is the sum-total of truth in both **nature** and **practice**.”
It is only Christ (who became a physical being) who is a TRUE representation of God (who is spirit). All other gods are merely man’s attempt by his own effort to obtain God’s approval. In basic, biblical Christianity, it is GOD who did the work to restore man’s broken relationship with God, not man. As a follower we merely accept it in faith. Jesus Christ proved through His life (practice) that He was the sinless Son of God, or in other words, the embodiment of truth.
He also fulfilled many, many prophecies about Him (all of them, actually) that took place hundreds of years before He was born. His birth, death and resurrection were all prophesied and ALL fulfilled. The chances of this happening are not only improbable but impossible. This type of thing never happened before His appearance and it has happened since. He is the only person who has ever done such a thing, making Him unique and proving His divinity. And because He alone is divine, He ALONE is able to restore our relationship with God by becoming the mediator between man and God, by paying the price for our sin with His own life.
Jesus proved who He was (God in His nature or character) by what He did. He did not use empty words or give empty promises. He authenticated (or backed up) His claims of divinity with the proof of a sinless life and control over nature, among other things.
Below is a website which outlines Jesus’ claims to divinity (He made many) ~ check it out ~
http://www.geocities.com/faithinevidence/claims.html
******************
And here are some of the words of Jesus Himself regarding those who reject Him as the only way to God ~
John 12:48-50 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
John 5:19-23 Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
1 John 5:9-12 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. (child referring to Christ)
***************
There is more than enough evidence to proves that Jesus Christ is “THE way, THE truth, and THE life”.
Kim is right when she says that mankind’s problem is rebellion. Sinful man does not want to bow the knee to a holy and righteous God. He does not want to admit that He cannot reach God by his own efforts, and that is why that same person rejects Jesus Christ as his Savior. The message that was repeated over and over again in the Bible is “Repent”, because God knew that unless man is willing to give up his own way and seek God’s, that he would never find Him. God, being a perfect being, gave mankind the perfect way to reach Him, through accepting Jesus life and death as the perfect and sinless sacrifice for our sin. It is only when we admit that we are alienated from God by our sin and that our own efforts are useless to help us have a genuine relationship with God that He will reveal His truth to us. So we must repent (turn away FROM our sin and self-effort) and turn TO God THROUGH Christ (the Way that GOD has provided for us to come before Him).
“Christ died for sins once for ALL, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring YOU to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit…” 1 Peter 3:13
Jesus Christ said in John 14:6 “I am the the way, the truth and the life: NO MAN COMETH TO THE FATHER, BUT MY ME.”
John 6:67-69 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
That puts the ball in your court. What will you do about who Jesus said He was and what He did for you?
March 1, 2008 at 9:33 am
Chris
Kim, Bonnie,
Thanks for your comments. As you say the majority of Hindus follow a philosophy known as advaita vedanta which sees the core soul or inner being of man as God. A minority follow the dvaita school, which believes that souls are created by God. There are other philosophical schools too, but to me they seem to take elements of one or the other of advaita and dvaita and combine them in confusing ways, like the vishistadvaita school that maintains that souls are separate from God, but are eternal an not created.
Personally I believe the advaita philosophy. A natural consequence of this is the conclusion that all humans are in the inner core divine. This does not mean by any means that they act divinely, or that they are worthy of worship in any way. The Vedas make it clear that in most people the divinity is shrouded as a “foetus in the womb”.
I would imagine that this is similar to the Christian view of someone with the holy spirit, though they may have holiness inside them it does not make them perfect, nor holy themselves in the sense of being worthy of worship. Some Christians say the holy spirit is only in Christians, though Quakers also see a divine spark in everyone, and the Pope decreed that the Holy spirit is in all men of good will, including non-Christians.
Hinduism does accept that we can purify ourselves, to reflect the divine nature of ourselves better. Thus in a very pure and saintly person the divine soul may be seen as “a reflection in a dust covered mirror”, or even “as fire through a haze of smoke”. Some Hindus believe that a few people completely reveal their divine nature, in effect become divine. I am highly skeptical that this can be achieved in an earthly life.
The reverence shown to saintly people varies. After visiting a Mandir in London and seeing that their founder, Bagwan Swaminarayan was at the centre of the temple, whereas Shiva, Parvati, etc where confined to the side temples, I felt that this was wrong. I discussed this with born-Hindus and discovered that many of them also felt that this was not right. The most common level of respect for a Guru seems to me to be about the same as a Catholic would have for a beloved patron saint.
I once read….If your son drowned trying to save a person and that person rejected this loving act, how ungrateful this person would be, how indifferent. What if he gave himself credit for saving himself? This is self-divinity. This is deception.
I agree with this, and all the Hindu scriptures I have read emphasise that it is not us who do holy works, but we have to allow the Divinity within us to do what is right. We can take no credit, all must be done on behalf of and in the name of God. If I say “I will do this for our temple”, then it may bring some good karma, or at least not bring bad karma, but there will still be karma, or a smoke before the divine. We need to say “I will surrender to God, who will do this for our temple. What happens is no effort on my part, all credit is to God”. Only then is the act a true holy act.
People always complain about the condition of the world today. How about the conditions in India? Are the Hindu gods loving? How are the gods of the third world faring?
The conditions in India have a lot of room for improvement. They are a lot better than those in some of the countries with the highest percentage of Christians; Nambia and Columbia have over 90% Christians whereas the USA has 76%.
The Hindu Gods are loving, and help us achieve love for others by seeing the divinity within. A lot of the stories about Hindu Gods are not well understood in the west, or by anyone reading them at face value. For example Shiva killing Kama (the god of physical love), is not about a violent killing but meditation and holiness overcoming lustful desires.
Jesus Christ has always been rejected by the majority, hence the condition of the world today….The United States claims to be a Christian nation. Maybe it was at one time but no longer. True Christians are hard to find these days, even in the churches.
One of the difference in notice in a Hindu mandir is that most people are genuinely concerned about spirituality, As Gandhi once said, he couldn’t help thinking in a Christian church that most people were not particularly interested in God, holiness or religion. Of course there are those who attend the Mandir with friends, or just to pray for more money and prosperity (Hinduism says that this is the lowest of motivations for worshiping, but is still better than neglecting God altogether), but many seem to be true spiritual people.
That puts the ball in your court. What will you do about who Jesus said He was and what He did for you?
As I have already said, I believe that Jesus was talking as one who has realised his spiritual nature. Therefore he is saying that no man comes to God except through the spiritual nature within him, which is the same as in us all. Now I was a Christian for a long time before I realised that worshiping a God that would condemn most of humanity, despite their best efforts to find Him, was not worhsiping the true, loving, good God. For some time after that I attended a Unitarian church, which had some good people, but they were too hung up on possibly offending anyone that nobody could express their faith. Don’t say God, the atheist-humanists bight be upset, but don’t say there is no God either!
I have prayed to God about my path, Jesus about my path, to the Divine Mother, even once to the Buddha. It was when I saw Shiva I knew what God meant to me, and when I prayed to Ganesh that I could see the obstacles in my path clearing. At some point I may formerly renounce my previous religion and become a Hindu, but for now I am following God’s will the best I can.
Namaste (I rcognise the divine light within you)
Chris
March 1, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Kim
“The conditions in India have a lot of room for improvement. They are a lot better than those in some of the countries with the highest percentage of Christians; Nambia and Columbia have over 90% Christians whereas the USA has 76%.”
Chris,
A Christian is someone who walks with the Lord Jesus Christ on a daily basis. Someone whose life has been regenerated because they have been truly born again. Someone who loves the Word of God so much that they experience joy and conviction when they read the Bible every day. They hunger and thirst for God. They grieve over their sin and repent. This is not someone who only calls on the name of the Lord on Sundays.
I know the stats of people calling themselves Christian just because they live in the US. I think they really believe this. The sorry truth is that only 10% of the population attends worship. I live by Seattle which is the most unchurched city at 5%. Also, The Roman Catholic Church is not a true Christian church. Excludes these numbers.
Now take these small percentage and know that many are just pew warmers. They only come to church on Sunday and forget about God the rest of the week. Lets guess a generous 50% here. Are you getting my drift? The true followers of Christ are few. They are the ones who walk the narrow road that leads to the narrow gate.
What do you mean when “saw Shiva”? Many who meditate are taken into the occult world and experience the light of Satan….And see many visions.
March 1, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Bonnie
Chris,
I am curious what kind of “Christian” church you attended in your past. Many people’s view of Christianity is distorted because they are looking to a church rather than the Bible itself, which is THE definitive and authoritative source, for a basic understanding of God’s plan and will for mankind.
More often than not, organized religion can and does add it’s own take on God’s Word, twisting it and changing it to suit its own purposes. Not all who name the name of Christ or who claim to be a Christian actually are. (In the same way, calling yourself a car does not make you a car, and neither does living in a garage). Attending a “Christian church or having been raised in a Christian home does not make you a Christian. You are a Christian if you, as an individual, repent and turn in complete dependence to Christ as the means of your salvation and trust in Him to save you. This is what the Bible teaches. A person needs to be careful to get an accurate view of Christianity, a view based on Scripture, not on a church or another person. That is why I like to quote the Scriptures themselves. Please take the time to carefully review the Scripture passages I have included, as they are the faithful representation of Christianity.
Matthew 7:21-23 says this about people who CLAIM to be His, but do NOT do His will:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
As Kim said in the previous comment, a true Christian is someone who first of all comes to Christ in faith by trusting Him to save them (becoming “born again” spiritually) and then living out that their life in in the same way on a daily basis. It is sad to say, but there are very few people who have actually done this, who are His true followers.
*****************
You said: “Now I was a Christian for a long time before I realised that worshiping a God that would condemn most of humanity, despite their best efforts to find Him, was not worhsiping the true, loving, good God.”
Even though Kim (in an earlier comment) said that “God will CONDEMN those who reject this salvation”, and you also said that you believe God is unfair for “condemning humanity”, the Bible does not teach that God condemns people to anything. I have not been able to find ONE verse of an accurate translation of the Bible that says God condemns us. (I think Kim will probably agree with me. I don’t want to put words in her mouth, and she can challenge me on that. If I’m wrong in that, let me know, Kim). What God does is JUDGE us, not condemn us. What Scripture says is that we are condemned already because of our rejection of Him, our sin and rebellion towards God. Our condemnation or separation from God is the outcome of that. It is our OWN SIN that condemns us, not God. Hell was not even created for humankind, it was created for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41 says: “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS). But since man has also turned away from God in rebellion, he is also separated from God, and those who continue to rebel and refuse to accept His sacrifice for sin will join the devil and his angels when the Judge/God gives His final judgment.
The only reason that men will be judged and sent to eternal punishment is because THEY have rejected HIM and rebelled as did the devil, not the other way around. God is both holy, righteous, just, fair and loving. God would not be just if He left sin unpunished. AND/BUT He provided the way for us to be spared from condemnation and the punishment for our sin, showing Him to be merciful.
God sent His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the price for our sin with His life so that we could escape that eternal punishment. Who but a loving God, would do such a thing?
Romans 5:7-9
7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (Those who hate rebellion and sin will be angry about it).
Romans 8:1
There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION to them that are IN CHRIST JESUS.
I say, based on this, “What a MERCIFUL God we have!” The God that I know through Christ is a loving and kind God, the one true God.
**************************
Sin MUST be first of all judged, and then perpetrator punished. What would you think of a judge who would allow a rapist to go free after being found guilty of a crime? Would he be considered a fair judge if he did that? There is a price to be paid for breaking the law, and punishment must follow, or there would be injustice. Somebody has to pay for that crime in some way or justice would not be served. How would you like to live in a world where there is absolutely no justice? I think it would be horrible, and the world in far worse condition than it is now.
God is holy and just. Man has broken God’s holy law, disobeying Him, and therefore must also be punished. But God provided A WAY OUT for us by providing a SUBSTITUTE to take the punishment FOR US. That WAY is Christ. A sinner cannot pay the price for his own sin and then rise again from the dead (Romans 6:23 says, For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”, and Hebrews 9:26-28 “For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.) Only the sinless Lamb of God (Christ) could die and rise from the dead again. And so too will those who trust in Him.
All the evil that surrounds us is a result of man’s sinful rebellion towards God. Only those who repent and turn to Christ as the substitute will be allowed to go free. Again I say, “What a merciful God we have”, who provides a way for us to escape the eternal consequences of our rebellion towards Him. God is patient, and not willing that ANY should perish. But unfortunately, MANY WILL NOT accept the substitute God provides in the payment for our sin in His Son, Jesus Christ.
John 3:13-19 says:
13… no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Jesus)
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17FOR GOD DID NOT SEND HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19AND THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION, that light is come into the world, and MEN LOVED DARKNESS RATHER THAN LIGHT, because their deeds were evil.
You see, Chris, God is holy and just, and He is also merciful and loving, and PATIENT. God’s day of final judgement has not yet come, because He wants as many as possible to turn to Him for salvation before that appointed day.
2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
These verses of Scripture that I have given you are the essence of the Christian faith, not some ritual created by man, and not some building with His name on it. Christ dwells within those who have faith in Him, and desire to obey Him. It is they who are truly His, not those who merely say they are.
Satan (the devil) appears to those who seek another way (through human effort, meditation, altered states of consciousness, etc) as an angel of light in order to deceive people, drawing them away from God’s will and plan. Who you are encountering when you “saw Shiva” was Satan or one of his angels (a demon), a lying spirit.
If you REALLY seek the truth, call out to the living God, who has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ and His testimony – the written word – the Bible, and He will reveal Himself to you. God has chosen this method of revealing Himself to us. It was done at HIS initiative, not ours. Are you willing to risk your soul if you are wrong about what you believe? If what you are believing is not the truth, don’t you want to know it? There is a spiritual world out there, but it is not all good or true. You need to make absolutely certain that you are on the right track, if you want to have true peace with God. You need to make a choice to reject Christ or accept Him AS HE IS REPRESENTED according to God’s revelation to man, the Bible. Life is short, you may never have the opportunity to make this decision again. Don’t delay!!
March 1, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Kim
Bonnie,
you said
“Even though Kim (in an earlier comment) said that “God will CONDEMN those who reject this salvation”, and you also said that you believe God is unfair for “condemning humanity”, the Bible does not teach that God condemns people to anything. I have not been able to find ONE verse of an accurate translation of the Bible that says God condemns us. (I think Kim will probably agree with me. I don’t want to put words in her mouth, and she can challenge me on that. If I’m wrong in that, let me know, Kim). ”
I am in agreement with you….thank you for the correction.
kim
March 2, 2008 at 9:39 am
Chris
Kim, Bonnie,
The attendance figures you give for the USA are high compared to the UK, where less than 2% of people regularly attend churches. It is so low that probably more people in Britain attend a mosque regularly than a Church of England church. When I was a Christian I attended the Church of England, which part of the Anglican movement.
I first saw Shiva as the true image of God after buying a nataraja, Lord Shiva as Lord of the dance. Seeing the symbolism of creation and destruction, the constantly beating drum of creation and the dynamism filled me with emotion, I realised that “this is God”. I have felt that realisation at other times during prayer and meditation.
the Bible does not teach that God condemns people to anything. I have not been able to find ONE verse of an accurate translation of the Bible that says God condemns us…..What God does is JUDGE us, not condemn us.
So he judges and decides that the mistaken majority should be burnt alive. That sounds like condemning to me.
What Scripture says is that we are condemned already because of our rejection of Him, our sin and rebellion towards God. Our condemnation or separation from God is the outcome of that. It is our OWN SIN that condemns us, not God.
There are several problems with that. Firstly, do you really think that anyone would deliberately and knowingly condemn themselves? For Christianity, Islam and the like it is a case of picking the wrong religion.
Secondly, the same Christians say we condemn ourselves and say salvation is only through God. That means that God chooses not to save everyone – He is all powerful so he could do so. At an extreme Calvin says “there are [unbaptised] babies a span long in hell”. That doesn’t sound like a good and merciful God to me.
Thirdly, if humans are these wretched and evil creatures, how can it remain pure and perfect with humans in it? Think about it, the murderer who becomes a Christian, the annoying people in Church who are out for admiration. Will heaven be heaven with them?
If you REALLY seek the truth, call out to the living God, who has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ and His testimony – the written word – the Bible, and He will reveal Himself to you. God has chosen this method of revealing Himself to us. It was done at HIS initiative, not ours. Are you willing to risk your soul if you are wrong about what you believe? If what you are believing is not the truth, don’t you want to know it?
As I mentioned before this is something I have done at great length. You need not worry. God is good!
Namaste
Chris
March 2, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Kim
Chris,
Just so you know, wordpress is set to withhold comments with multiple links. This is a spam precaution. I am not withholding your comments.