This is a very interesting article about Testing the Gift of Tongues. One time my father gave me an account of listening to someone speaking in tongues and then hearing the interpretation. His eyes glowed when he told me of the simply beautiful words of praise that come from the interpretors mouth. Then again, I heard a story from my mother who attended a revival meeting many years ago in Bellevue, WA and received the gift of tongues there. On a return trip back to the meeting place she noticed that those speaking in tongues were actually worshiping a man named Ted, and calling him Lord. The hair raised on the back of her neck and she realized that the meeting was demonic. She renounced the gift she had received suspecting that it was satanic in origin. So I have two accounts from my own family, one appearing to be the true gift of tongues and then the second being a counterfeit gift.
Testing the gift of tongues, what are you afraid of if you do?
God commands believers to not forbid speaking in tongues (I Corinthians 14:39), but He also commands them not to believe every spirit but to put them to the test to see whether they are of God or not (1 John 4). The spiritual gift ‘distinguishing of spirits’ is one of the least sought after, and least preached about spiritual gifts, that is very seldom mentioned let alone practiced. However this gift is vital for any Spiritual church’s day to day life – as the Apostle John tells us many false spirits NOT of God have gone into the world. Note also that testing the spirits in the Biblical sense is completely different to ‘blaspheming against the Holy Spirit’ which is a commonly given reason for not testing spiritual gifts. However, it is one thing to accuse a person or spirit they operate by the power of Beelzebub (without scripturally testing them), and quite another to test and see if the spirit acknowledges Christ or not as per the test in 1 John 4 before one makes any accusation.
After fifty-five years of ministry, A.E. Ruark believed around 90% of all tongues manifestations that he tested were false. He believed there was a true gift of tongues so he was not against spiritual gifts. However he realized that for every spiritual gift there was an anti-gift – a false gift that is antichrist. He claimed that tongues was one of the most frequent entry points for Satan in his attack upon Christian people (as they do not know what they are saying and rarely discern it or interpret it properly) and that their fear, or reluctance, to test the spirits was a major strategy Satan used to avoid being uncovered.
The test he suggested of a tongues spirit should be made when someone is speaking in tongues. The one who does the testing should address, not the human being, but the spirit, in this manner, “Spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, answer, is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” A demon is most reluctant to answer this question. It will refuse to answer that question, will give an evasive answer, or say “no” in English with the person’s voice. “The tongues speaker must agree that the spirit of the tongue may answer in English, and that he himself will not give the answers, but will as it were “sit back”, and allow the spirit controlling his vocal organs to give the answers, while he simply listens. Then we are testing the spirit of the tongue directly, and will prove whether this spirit is of God or of the devil.”Gerald E. McGraw said that the Holy Spirit promptly, freely and consistently confesses Christ. A demon will give one or several answers that betray his real identity, or he will stubbornly evade the question, in itself a refusal to confess. A demon may give a number of favorable answers, for he hopes to preserve his hold on the victim, but persistence and faith will soon unveil his actual identity, name and purpose.
W.L. McLeod, the pastor in whose church the Canadian Revival began, said,‘On a number of occasions I have been asked by tongues speakers to test their gift. I have found some that were entirely a self thing, and some that had demonic overtones, but I cannot deny that some were as genuine as any Scriptural test could make them. The test I applied was simple. I would kneel with the person and ask them to exercise the gift. . . . When they go into this other tongue, I then address the spirit controlling their tongue and ask it, on the authority of 1 John 4:1-3 to confess in the English language that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I think of one such case where the reply was given in perfect English, loud and clear, “Yes, yes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He came in the flesh.” The person was so overcome afterwards by the manifestation of the power of God, that she was unable for a few moments to rise from her knees…. . . There are probably as many genuine cases as there are phony ones.’
Gerald McGraw claimed that many religious spirits would be deceptive, and call themselves ‘Jesus’ (albeit another Jesus). ’During a deliverance session, we encountered a spirit named Jesus. He hated the Lord Jesus Christ. I was suspicious because past experience had revealed that tongues demons often deceptively adopt the name Jesus. Upon my inquiry the demon admitted he was the spirit giving her, her gift of tongues, rather than the Holy Spirit.’ Some apparently even claim to be the Holy Spirit till revealed to be otherwise.Strong Christians can be invaded by a tongues demon, therefore anyone with a gift of tongues should make certain the gift was not a satanic counterfeit, since missionaries have reported hearing tongues speakers blaspheming in the language they had used on the mission field.
Tongues should be tested….At that time McGraw had never tested any tongues, nor had his colleagues. But soon someone asked for a test…. she was ‘an outstanding Christian lady – capable, talented, balanced, dependable, a soulwinner. She said she never used her tongue except in private. As she related her spiritual experience to my wife and me I just could not imagine that this fine believer could have a tongues demon. I told her so….Upon testing we found a tongue quite manifestly of the Holy Spirit. But soon another tongue appeared in the same woman- a tongue that was bitter and hateful toward Christ, toward her and toward us. The true tongue was clear evidence to me that her sanctification was genuine. Yet it was undeniable that a demonic tongues spirit inhabited her.’
‘Others who have had tongues tests are utterly sincere and deeply spiritual people. The lives of several show marked evidence of conversion, spiritual hunger and growth. I do not believe that a tongues demon can sever a person from Christ’s love. I have no doubt that many in the charismatic movement are earnest Christians, with more zeal and love than their anticharismatic critics. Yet my experiences of testing make me suspect that multitudes of tongues enthusiasts are deluded.’
There is seemingly slight ground that can admit a tongues demon, particularly where an unscriptural view is entertained…. God will never give a stone if we ask Him for the good gift of His Spirit (Luke 11:11-13), but experiences of many demonstrate that unscriptural views on tongues are frequently sufficient provocation for Satan to give an unsuspecting victim stones and scorpions of false tongues at the same time. God offers no automatic protection to the unwary. One middle-aged lady visited only one charismatic meeting. When a saintly looking elderly man there urged, “Just yield your tongue,” she did. She received nine different demonic spirits who all professed to provide her with tongues gifts.Tongues are no plaything. A properly tested tongue can provide a channel of spiritual enrichment to a Christian and to a congregation. But it appears much of the current wave of tongues-speaking is satanic delusion.’Edited excerpts from ‘Distinguishing Between True and False Utterances’ by K. Neill Foster.
Alexander Seibel of Germany was a Pentecostal of good standing. His friend was a missionary in India and on a visit in Germany. They shared missionary experiences and decided to pray. While Alexander was praying in tongues the missionary jumped up and demanded Alex to stop speaking as he was saying, in a known Indian dialect, the most horrible blasphemy words against God.
There are many other similar occurrences. Tongues must be tested. Note I do not say all tongues are false, I say some are. K. Neill Foster continues –‘Can it be claimed as certain assurance that those who insist upon a tongues experience contrary to scriptures will never get a stone or serpent? If this scripture can be used in this way, why then the manifestation of false gifts on every side?
For example, I know personally a former preacher who finally discovered his gifts were not of God. I was in the counseling room when he was converted. During his Bible college days I had occasional contact with him. He began working in what would be called a non-charismatic evangelical denomination. He left to pastor a Pentecostal church because of his speaking in tongues and also other “gifts” such as the ability to identify the sins of the people in the congregation. At the same time his marriage deteriorated. He finally left the ministry. In his case there were also frequent outbursts of obscenity and later abject backsliding. Finally in desperation he came to his former friends, so-called non-charismatic pastors. In a deliverance which lasted several hours these pastors drove out eight demons, many of them naming themselves as false gifts, several of them speaking in tongues.One brother who has tested tongues for forty years says that in his experience nine out of ten were false.
In a recently published article one of our contemporaries cites a similar statistic: Ninety percent of the tongues he and his colleagues have tested have been false. In my own experience perhaps eighty percent of the tongues manifestations that I have had to deal with have been false.
Still I doubt that the statistics tell the whole story. Because people with genuine gifts and healthy spiritual life do not come for counseling nearly so frequently. But there is no denying that the devil has been having a field day among charismatic’s. His penetration, whatever the percentage, appears to be massive.
But to face the issue of false gifts, stones and serpents, the open door to satanic penetration is in the merging of the work of the Holy Spirit which is for all with a spiritual gift that is given only to some as God wills. The resulting confusion is very often tragic.
A teenager was subjected to the overtures of a radical charismatic group, a group which in turn would certainly be rejected by mainline groups of Pentecostals. He allowed hands to be laid on him and “saw” a bright light. Later in a “Canadian revival” atmosphere, as distinct from “charismatic” atmosphere, the youth felt a bondage he could not escape until he made a verbal commitment much like this, “In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I now refuse, repudiate and renounce completely any and all spirits of false prophecy from _____ (naming the false prophet). And I send them to the abyss in Jesus’ name.” He was instantly liberated and sensed within that the “charismatic” bondage had been broken.
On one occasion a pastor friend came to me asking for assistance. He had two young fellows preaching in his church, one of whom he knew spoke in tongues, and he was uneasy about their ministry. He wanted the test to be applied….We applied the test to both, but we were unsatisfied with the results. It appeared that the fellows spoke in tongues, switched off the manifestation to answer positively to the question, “Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” and then shifted back into their tongues. I realize now that we found out only if the fellows believed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. We did not succeed in trying the spirits at all. But the experience was not wasted; we learned what not to do.
The manifestation must be allowed unhindered and uninterrupted expression while the test is being made, and no effort must be made by the person involved to supply the “right” answer.
The repetition of the question, “You spirit now manifesting, is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” may be important. I have come to expect a spontaneous affirmative answer when the tongues manifestation is genuinely of the Holy Spirit, especially when the test question is put several times.If the enemy is involved, repetitious questioning (like repetitious commanding, Mark 5:8, Amplified New Testament) will often shake the enemy loose and provoke abrasive or antagonistic reactions – and of course clarify the case.Sometimes the spirit may respond with a positive answer that is at the same time equivocate and/or evasive. For example, a spirit might respond, “Of course I believe in Jesus.” But which Jesus is not specified. If there is any hint of subterfuge, stick to the biblical test. Repeat it. Enlarge upon it by requiring answers to such questions as these: Is Jesus Christ Lord? Is Jesus Christ anathema? Does all the fullness of the Godhead dwell bodily in Jesus Christ? This procedure is likely to clarify the issue fully.In 1 John 4:2 and 3 the verb forms used indicate that every spirit that continually and genuinely confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. Therefore reluctant admissions or occasional positive declarations that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh are not sufficient.
The confession must be continual. A superficial understanding of this principle can short circuit the whole procedure of testing.
(Demons can and do lie. Thus, the words continually and genuinely in the paragraph above are of utmost importance. Also, as we have just noted, the Greek verbs used in 1 Corinthians 12:3 and 1 John 4:2 and 3 do come down strongly on the continuous idea.)
Illustrations of deceitful positive affirmations are not hard to come by. In the Dominican Republic I met a Christian woman who habitually twitched and shuddered in prayer meetings. She had a tongues manifestation which seemed to take over when she wanted to praise the Lord. But when the manifestation was confronted, the confession of Jesus Christ, though positive, was accented, even faintly humorous or mocking, and in English which the woman definitely did not know. I believe in retrospect that it was a false confession.
A friend who wrote to me during the writing of this book related an incident where invading spirits named one of their co-inhabitors, “Jesus.” So of course they all knew and loved “Jesus.” The spirits had to be confronted with “which Jesus?”
Another friend added yet another illustration. In the process of a deliverance a spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit manifested itself in the victim. All tests were applied with positive results. When my friend returned home from a trip, he found his colleagues persuaded that the Holy Spirit indeed had taken control of the person. All he had to follow was a discerning witness that something was wrong. He initiated a confrontation and the phony “Holy Spirit” was uncovered.
Thus, as we have said elsewhere in these pages, there are four possibilities with spirit-testing: (1) a positive affirmation which is genuine and continual, (2) a positive affirmation which is not continual but is intended to deceive, (3) a denial, and (4) silence. 1 John 4:2 and 3 lays a four-sided trap for the enemy, and the Christian worker must know where the biblical lines are drawn.
If a pastor observes doubtful manifestations in his congregation, as a shepherd of the flock, I feel personally he has every right to ask to be permitted to test the manifestation. But he should be ready for the fireworks and to proceed with exorcism in the event of false manifestations. He should also be prepared to instruct the inquiring person if the manifestation proves fleshly. If the person himself is creating the “tongue” and no spiritual manifestation is involved, it may be judged fleshly.
Also, before the test is applied, one should prepare the person involved for the possibility that there has been deception. To admit that one has been deceived is a very high hurdle indeed. Terminology is important. Use the full title of the Lord Jesus Christ, because there are many antichrists in the world. At one of our conventions a sister who was in the process of being delivered was taken by a spirit which said repeatedly, “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.” Unfortunately the “Jesus” was not the Lord Jesus Christ. The spirit was dislodged in His name.’
From ‘A Third View of Tongues’ by K. Neill Foster
I found this article Here.


129 comments
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March 2, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Kim
Leigh….
Here is what i am wondering about the stats…..What were the circumstances that these people were being tested? Were there signs of demonic oppression? In this case the stats would be very high. Or were people being randomly selected, or did they just volunteer out of curiosity?
“About 40 have turned out to be vile cursing demons using the tongue to praise Satan and blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ. The others would not admitt that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and therefore was either demonic or was of the flesh.”
If this is true then i would say your findings were 100%, if the 5 wouldn’t admit that Jesus came in the flesh. If they were faking it, they would still say that Jesus came in the flesh.
I mean no disrespect, but testing only 45 people in 23 years seems rather low. Many claim to be speaking tongues from the Holy Spirit. There should be ample people to test. Unless you do it only when requested.
I would like some elaboration…..What you say is very scary….and I pray that it is not true, even though i suspect it is.
“Wolves among the Sheep is one and the other is The Blind and the Dead by Texe Marrs. Another one is Signs and Wonders 1&2”
These DVD’s..are they all from Texe Marrs? I have some problems with him.
March 2, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Kim
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309655344938122063&q=texe+marrs&hl=en
Here is the video The Blind and the Dead by Texe Marrs. It is very good… about one hour. I have seen many of these clips already.
It it divided into 7 sections.
1. False and Deceitful Tongues
The well-known exchange between Rodney Howard-Browne and Kenneth Copeland is included.
2. Unholy Laughter
Rodney Howard-Browne –“The Bar is Open”, “Joel’s Place”,
Kenneth Hagin
Arnott – Toronto Blessing Vineyard
3. Signs of Demon Possession
Benny Hinn
Steve Hill
4. Crazed and Ungodly Behavior
Hagin
Copeland
5. Despising Sound Doctrine
Kim Clement and many others
6. Anger and Violent Temper
Hinn
Howard-Browne
Paul Crouch
7. Greed and the Love of Money
Hagin
Crouch
Benny Hinn
and others.
If you haven’t seen these types of clips this is good video to watch.
March 3, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Leigh
Dear Kim,
The 45 people came to me for councelling because they were having serious spiritual difficulties. I never approach people the Lord has always led them to me. I do not advertise that I am a deliverance minister. That way all the Glory goes to who deserves it, the Lord Jesus Christ.
One of my first questions is ” do you speak in Tongues?” Because this is such a large doorway for evil spirits counterfeiting the Holy Spirit. Most are not aware that they should obey scripture in 1John 4:1-4. I have to explain that I am not testing the person or doubting their committment to Christ.
I tell them that we are held accountable for every word out of our mouth and if a foul demon is using their mouth and body it surely must grieve the Holy Spirit as our body is the Temple of The Holy spirit.
I agree with what you said about the other five not having suitable answers. I do know that Ernest Rockstad and Ruark and McGraw believe that they found genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit. Another deliverance minister in Australia tested about 300 and never found a true Holy spirit tongue spirit.
I am not sure where I got the other two DVDs from but Wolves among the Sheep is similiar to The Blind and The Dead. But shows Hagin,Hinn, Copeland giving the devil sign and while speaking in tongues giving allegience to the Devil. Now that is scary when you see the thousands that flock to these charlitans.
March 3, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Kim
Thank for clarifying that the 45 who came to you, did so because they were having spiritual problems. I believe this verifies the danger of counterfeit gifts.
I have been praying about what you have said…and what you have related, verifies what i already believe. This is a hard truth. There are some friends in Christ, that i love very much who are pondering over this.
March 3, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Leigh
Kim, this is the saddening part of this whole situation. There are many genuine born again Christians who have been deceived by the angle of light. I can only say again they must obey scripture and test the spirit giving the manifestation of the tongue.
Better to obey than be in doubt. The Holy spirit will reward those who obey. If I can help in anyway I am available. I do not know how to get in touch personally with you or those who are genuine in wanting the truth.
Blessings in Christ. Leigh
March 4, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Leigh
Dear Kim and others. Below are links to sermons given by Dr Alan Cairns on the Counterfeit gift of Tongues. I am in agreement with his teachings as he explains very clearly from the Word the Biblical Gift as opposed to the modern day counterfeit.
Please pray that the Holy spirit will enlighten those who view these videos.
Blessings. leigh.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=217081822910
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=32081948159
March 4, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Kim
Thank you Leigh,
Anyone who would like to contact Leigh personally, just say so, and i will forward you his email address.
When you leave a comment you also leave me your email address.
kim
or this is probably better yet…here is Leigh’s email.
endtimeswarfare@hotmail.com
March 5, 2008 at 3:10 pm
NWProdigal
I agree with Dr.Cairns on many things and this is definitely one of them.
I was talking to my brother-in-law the other day about TV evangelists and Ken Copeland came up. I told him, quite simply, that the video I saw of Copeland and his buddies rolling around like drunks on stage and laughing like devils incarnate, were of Satan. Of course, there are those who would accuse me of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit witnesses to me that these things are not glorifying to God and thus cannot be of God.
I was very drawn, when I first became a Christian, to what I considered plain spiritual religions like the Quakers and Mennonites. They ended up being much too involved in trying tio change the world socially instead of spiritually. In turn I looked into “second blessing” and “Christian perfection” fellowships. Unfortunately these seemed to always lead me, eventually, toward the Toronto Blessing and Latter Rain teachings. Just watching Heidi Baker “preach” was enough to convince me these people are very, very deluded. She can spend an hour saying a whole lot of nothing, but she looks like a puppet being manipulated by an invisible force. And….she is! But, it is not of God. These folks are very sincere and emotionally fervent, and that is what is so attractive yet misleading about the whole thing.
Thank the Lord I was protected by discerning the spirits behind these and other movements. Pray and ask God for knowledge and discernment. If you don’t want to be deceived, but desire the truth, God will not abandon you!
May 20, 2008 at 5:44 am
Luke
It may be unrealistic to expect that a person, right after the baptism in the Holy Spirit, is to behave like a holy person overnight—that includes the speaking in tongues.
The Holy Spirit first comes into the spirit man that is our centre, from which He proceeds to begin cleansing the reservoir of such emotional complexes still remaining in the soul realm as bitterness, resentment, hatred, pride, lewdness, debauchery, adultery, idolatry, etc., and then moves on to the physical body and finally will reveal the riches of glory out into the world.
The person who has gone through long years of transformation process would become mature and carry with him aroma of Christ wherever he or she goes. His or her mere presence changes his or her surroundings.
To sum up, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to discern the genuine from the counterfeit: In a church when a missionary who was leading a night church service spoke in Satanic tongues, the Holy Spirit asked Rev. Joe to pray in heavenly tongues. When he spoke in God’s tongue in silence, the missionary fell to the ground and was in a coma like a dead man, but Pastor Joe prayed again to the Holy Spirit not to kill him. Accordingly he recovered again from his coma, but he knew nothing about what happened to him. Rev. Joe did not need to talk to the deceiving spirit but let the Holy Spirit do the job instead.
May 20, 2008 at 8:07 am
Kim
Yes, i agree that it is difficult to behave like a holy person overnight after one accepts Jesus Christ as ones personal Savior and surrenders their life to Him. The study of Romans is helpful here.
Sanctification is a lifelong process of growth after we have been justified by faith. This is grace almost impossible to fathom.
When we receive the Holy Spirit a desire to live a holy life should appear and a longing and thirst for the Word of God. It is through the Holy Spirit that we can now see and acknowledge our sin and repent and turn away from it. The Holy Spirit exposes our sin but does not remove sin, repentance does.
May 26, 2008 at 9:48 pm
duskfading
Very helpful and informative blog.
I want to ask if its possible if you can test yourself if the gift is indeed of divine origin? Well, I kinda doubt the authenticity of a self test, but would that be possible and acceptable?
August 12, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Kim
Justine,
You have done the right thing by your prayer. I am at work and want to check a reference source and will add more later tonight.
August 12, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Justine Mansfield
Thank you Kim.
August 12, 2008 at 5:39 pm
mbaker
Justine,
Thank you for sharing your heart on this matter. It is hard, and you will be brought to the truth since your prayers are sincere. I have been there, done that, and have others here. We are here to tell you nothing is as freeing as when the light bulb comes on and you see clearly the difference between God’s truth and some of the deceptive practices and teaching out there which want to lead you away from the Lord, not toward Him. That’s my criteria now- whether things line up with the Word, which is proven versus that which is unproven from man.
We are all aware of the doubts. We just rest in the peace of the Lord, and the truth of His word to guide us now.
I will make it a point to pray that you receive answers to your questions. Hang in there, and keep strong in the Word. You will definitely overcome if you do.
August 12, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Justine Mansfield
Thank you mbaker for your encouragement and your prayers and I will prayer for you and this blog, God I know is shown me alot of truth through the Holy Bible. Always more to learn. I agree we cannot trust man. It hurts to see churches attacking one another and we need to prayer for all churches. God is not a author of confusion., Peace be with you in the Lord.
August 12, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Justine Mansfield
Thank You Kim. I will pray your pray and mine was asmost the same but, yours is a little more powerful.
Peace be with you.
August 12, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Kim
Justine,
The best prayer is the one that comes from your heart.
August 12, 2008 at 11:36 pm
bernadette
hi i have found this reading on couterfeit tounges very interesting. i have a friend that has been a christian all her life and 5years ago she watched me a new christian all of a sudden no work on my part be given the gift of tounges and she wanted for herself too..so she set out to do so…it took months of pushing with God persay and finally this one day i came home from work and she said she had tounges. i remember hearing it and feeling an eeriness about the whole thing but ignored it because i was oblivous to the fact that it couldnt be from God. anyways its now 5years down the track and no fruit is evident in her life…when we do pray together and she starts praying out allowed in tounges it cuts the presence of God immediately…and i just cant continue to pray….i have mentioned it a few times but she doesnt seem to comprehend that her tounges is interferring with praying together. what can i do….
August 13, 2008 at 9:16 am
Kim
Your account is very interesting..The way you received your gift is so different from the way your friend received hers.
Much prayer and the work of the Holy Spirit is needed here. Anytime there is a spirit present that causes interference with prayer or reading of the Bible there is much concern.
That her spirit affects you negatively, is also a grave concern because of the possibility of transference, if you are not praying yourself. (I want to humbly add that i keep revisiting the worry for you here.)
I have read that those with a false spirit never really grow in the Lord and need to renounce their false gifting. In fact many will eventually turn away from their faith, as this is the ultimate goal of the enemy.
I just read an account of two people who received the “gift” at a meeting. They prayed for two years for this to occur. It did, but when it happened they felt a heat and a strange power overwhelm them. This is not of the Lord because the Holy Spirit cannot be felt by the senses. (this is what i have learned anyway from deliverance ministers and they all seem to concur on this point)
In the long run they were disillusioned and did renounce their experience and prayed for forgiveness which quickly restored peace with God.
So what should you do? The next time you two meet for prayer, you need to be protected by the blood of Jesus Christ. Pray first as to what to say and do. Maybe pray aloud in the name of Jesus Christ that no enemy spirit will be allowed to speak among you. There really is no formula, except that all truth and power comes through Jesus Christ. We have authority as believers but only through Christ. He can accomplish all things in His way.
August 13, 2008 at 9:35 am
Kim
I thought of something i wanted to add.
I just recently heard a story where someone was preaching the Gospel and he started to speak in tongues, a known language to this group of people. People heard the Word and came to Christ.
I want to be careful because i do not remember the entire story but i remember asking if this person had always spoke in tongues or not. He did not. This was a one time gifting for the Glory of God. God always uses the gifts of the Spirit for His glory only.
August 13, 2008 at 10:44 am
Lee
Kim,
You must referring to the account I told you about. Here it is:
I have an acquaintance who was on a mission trip to China. While he was at one particular place he felt led to speak/preach a message later than evening. The group he was with had an interpreter along to aid in communication.
When my acquaintance got up to speak, there was sunlight obscuring the page on the podium. In a panic, he was flustered wondering how he would preach if he could not see his Bible! Then, words just began to flow and at the close of his talk he gave an altar call and was astonished when about 200 or so came forward!
His interpreter looked at him in and exclaimed, “why didn’t you tell me?”
“Tell you what?”
“That you could speak Chinese?!”
“I can’t speak Chinese!”
“Well, you just spoke perfect Mandarin Chinese!”
This is the first and only time my acquaintance has spoken a tongue other than English — well, besides his bad Spanish. 🙂 lol
Regarding all spiritual gifts: All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. [1 Corinthians 12:11 NIV]
August 13, 2008 at 10:57 am
Lee
bernadette:
One other account:
I used to know someone else who told me how she got her tongues. Obviously, speaking in tongues was a BIG DEAL to the people she hung around with as she was pressured into it feeling as though she would be somehow ‘less than’ if she didn’t.
It took a while; but, then, it came — one monosyllable over and over. She thought “Is that it?” She still felt like she was not as ‘spiritual’ as the others.
Well, she then told me that when she initially got that first syllable that her hands began to turn inward like a claw. Now, that DEFINITELY did not sound right to me!
I questioned the authenticity of this; and, the more I found about her beliefs, the more concerned I got. As I began to research some things online, I came to the conclusion that she was following some offshoot of Christianity that was heavily into mysticism called Latter Rain.
As she realized that I wasn’t ‘buying in’ to her theology, she abruptly cut off all communication with me insisting I not communicate with her ever again. I was never rude to her as I was very concerned, empathetic and tried to tell her gently.
One of the things she kept telling me is that I have enough ‘head knowledge’ and needed a ‘revelation.’ I told her that I continue to get revelation in the Word and in Holy Spirit promptings. I guess that just wasn’t exciting enough for her. It’s a shame.
Anyway, the reason for my story here is to ask you to exercise extreme caution when around your friend. Do your best to tell her your concern; but, don’t be surprised if you end up being shunned. God wants us to love Him first; and, He will remain faithful to you. I pray for my ex-friend almost every day.
October 17, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Christina Garcia
I did not know what the gift of tongues was/is, Nor did I ever ask for it. I was so aloof from spiritual nourishment until my mother asked me to meet her at Church. When I got there she was nowhere to be found. I ended up in a Catholic Carismatic Chapel singing praise and worship songs to the Lord. It is during my singing that the holy spirit landed on my chest and mouth and took control of my vocals and lyrics. Soon I was singing in tongues, with uncontrolable tears running down my cheaks. I got scared, I looked at the guitar player singing and playing, he looked at me and I thought he was going to judge me.. so I got ready to step out, when at the door, I asked myself, what am I afraid of? I am in a chapel praising Jesus, so I walked back to my seat, stood up and continued singing. I did not tell anyone for 1 year. After a year, I shared it with my Christian friends and they guided me to ACTS in the bible. I could hardly believe that what happened at Pentacost 2000 years ago could still occur today. Since then I have seeked spiritual nourishment, and worshiped the Lord with groups like SCRC, which is a Catholic Charismatic Group in Southern California, led by Dominic and Loyola Marymount. Boy have I been blessed.
October 17, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Christina Garcia
The Gift of Tongues is real. It is Real. It is a holy language. Jesus must be invited into your conversation, just the way he was invited to the Wedding in Cana. Communication in the holy language must occur with Jesus and only him. One must be cleansed of any sin, repent and be humble. We must be like Children to enter the kingdom.
This is real. This is realy realy real. Though we must becareful because we enter the spiritual realm and the enemy can interupt it. That is why we must be spiritually cleansed of any unclean spirit. We can say, In the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I command any unclean spirit to be gone!” In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth I command any of satan’s evil to leave my soul, our soul, our presence and stay away forever. Amen
October 17, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Kim
I am copying a comment from IWanttheTruth dated Dec 4th.
“I was re-reading this thread and came to the realization that the Bible already gives us a test for the “real-ness” of a “tongue”. It needs to be interpreted and then the interpretation must be tested to the scriptures.
If it is not interpreted then the person must keep quiet.
1Cr 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 1Cr 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
Chapter 14 of Acts in the ESV version is quite clear about the operation of tongues, it’s use and it’s purpose.”
*****
This passage indicates that the tongue should be able to be interpreted, and there should be someone there to do so. If not then the person needs to be quiet.
I also have some concerns about these phrases.
“holy spirit landed on my chest and mouth and took control of my vocals and lyrics.”
and
“uncontrolable tears”
and
“enter the spiritual realm”
You cannot “feel” the Holy Spirit and exterior physical manifestations are a sure warning sign.
Catholic mystics are promoting entering a spiritual realm by metaphysics which is clearly prohibited in the Bible in Deutoronomy. This is divination and it contacts the spirit world and we are not to do this because of the dangers of deception.
You are doing the right thing by praying that any evil spirit pretending to be holy leave you. I hope your tongue is real. It needs to be interpreted by using biblical standards set forth in 1 Corinthians. This is my opinion.
October 19, 2008 at 2:57 am
Leigh
Hi Kim, I have been off line for a while and came back to see the thread on tongues. As you know I have been in deliverance for 25 years and have carried out tests on Christians who have “received the gift”. About 40 tests and all proved to be false when the test in 1 John 4:1-4 was carried out.
K Neil Foster has a great article at http://www.kneillfoster.com/articles/Glossolalia.html
I, like you Kim have grave concerns when the “holy spirit” lands on the chest, and the emotional signs can be counterfeited as is the gift by the Devil.
For any sincere Bible believing Christian the true test must be the Word of God. We are told to study and show ourselves approved of by God. “Signs and wonders” are no proof unless tested also. Matthew 24:24. 2 Thessalonians 2:9. 1 Timothy 4:1. 2 Timothy 4:2-5.
I would encourage ALL who claim to have the gift to seroiusly search the Word, for “tongues are for a SIGN not to those who believe but to the unbelievers.” 1 Corinthian 13:22. Tongues were a Sign Gift operated by the Apostles for proclaiming the GOOD NEWS to unbelieving Jews. Paul refers to the Old Testament Isaiah 28:11-12 in verse 21. See also Isaiah 33:19. Jeremiah 5:15. The tongues were a warning for an unbelieving Nation of impending judgement.
1 Corinthians 13:8 shows the cessation of the gifts when “that which is perfect comes”. This cannot be the Lord Jesus Christ as it is a neuter or impersonal noun in the Greek.
I would encourage ALL Christians to watch two sermons on tongues by Dr Allan Cairns on sermonaudio. He gives a excellent Biblical presentation that I doubt the descerning Christian can dispute.
I can only encourage caution where this gift is practised. Without intrepretation it is invalid; if more than one is speaking in tongues at the same time it is unbiblical.
1 John 4:1-3
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
March 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm
simon
Those who are mature will recognise the quality of the Holy Spirit in those who speak in tongues. God never intended tongues to be the issue but obedience to Jesus Christ for we are given the Holy Spirit for obedience. Signs and wonders are God’s department, obedience is ours. Much of what today passes as gifts of the spirit are questionable for the quality of the Holy Spirit is missing. Jesus didn’t ask us to seek healing but to seek Him our healer. Sin is self seeking, the Holy Spirit is God seeking. We live in a generation that wants everything, were as God wants all of us and until we do give Him our all we are the ones that lose out. (Proverbs) The foolish woman is noisy, bringing all the right gifts but in its heart is after stealing our souls. May God give us wisdom to discern the difference.
March 7, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Kim
Those who are mature..? Jesus asks us to be”poor in spirit” or realizing how depraved we really are spiritually. Of course this comes from Matthew 5:3. Those who are poor in spirit…these are the one who will receive the kingdom of heaven.
I have seen or heard of a handful of a true speaking of tongues. A missionary I know, began to sing to a congregration in Siberia. Suddenly her words changed from english to russian. It was “Amazing Grace” and people were saved. These woman would rather die than exalt herself so her story is told to only a few. She is the perfect example of “poor in spirit” and so was used mightily. But it was a one time occurence.
What exact verse are you using for your last sentence?
March 8, 2011 at 6:04 am
simon
Mature no longer a babe in Christ. Young Christians have a tendency to focus on gifts on God’s acts while mature Christians look at God’s way to determine the source of the act. Many Christians have been caught in a snare of the enemy because they fail to recognize that Satan has counterfeit tongues and miracles. Any student of the Old Testament will understand what I am saying. It is the focus on the miraculous that has got many Christians into a lot of trouble for they fail to realize how lustful we become for signs and wonders and by them end up ensnared into Satan’s trap. Today much of what is labeled signs and wonders is suspect for the source of it is questionable. The mud slinging gives it all away. The Holy Spirit is like a dove , Satan is like a roaring lion. The spirit of God does not draw attention to Himself only to Jesus. So when you see all this attention getting manifestation what does it remind you of?
March 8, 2011 at 6:27 am
simon
You asked for the scriptures in proverbs there are two
Some scriptures noisy woman Proverbs 9:13 ff and Proverbs 7
Fake miracles Exodus 7: 12ff
March 8, 2011 at 7:34 am
Kim
Thank you for claryifying your position. The word lust really glared at me in your comment and reading through Proverbs 7 gave it more meaning. Plus you are so right, the last verse says, “Her house is the say to hell, going down to the chambers of death.” Also of great interest is verse 26, “Many strong men have been slain by her.”
March 8, 2011 at 8:40 am
simon
There is one more tidbit of wisdom to pass on. In the western world knowledge is the root of understanding, however in Christian life Jesus is the root of understanding. It is Christ’s knowledge we must seek rather than the knowledge of men no matter if they are pastors or not. This is the error so many have made, they have sought knowledge rather than God for understanding. Perhaps another way to look at it a child grows by looking to his natural father for understanding, understanding based on trust, so it is with God, understanding based on trusting Him. The big mistake spirit filled Christians often make is trusting in the anointing and their spiritual abilities rather than God and so we get tongues that are off; for the focus is pleasing self even tough they think they are pleasing God. We live in a strange time, everything is out of God’s ordained order and until that is restored we will see many more strange wonders.
March 8, 2011 at 9:31 am
Simon
We are a people that have learned to trust those in authority as having all the right answers. We have been subtly taught that the Bible does not hold the answers to life, that its understanding of man is wrong, that God can’t do what he says he has done. Then we have the other extreme we by faith we can do anything. Both these sides have one problem self has listen to sin and is at war with God’s throne and is suffering its consequences. God ordained order is this Worship God , love God (put Him first in everything) and love your neighbour as you would want your neighbour to love you. ( do unto others as you would have others do unto you) The gospel isn’t about me but Christ, my importance in it is worth nothing in comparison to Jesus Christ. This is hard to understand in a generation were everything is based on self worth. Our worth is the worth God places upon us, our view of self has nothing to do with us. It is this importance of self worth that has driven many to spiritual destruction and has opened the way for doctrines of demons and demonic intrusion. Hence all the fake gifts and broken hearts and foolish pride for all that has become important is self.
March 9, 2011 at 4:04 pm
IWanthetruth
….The Holy Spirit is like a dove …
No, actually that is how He decended. He does not look like a dove nor is like a dove. He is more like the wind and lights as flames of fire, Acts 2.
March 10, 2011 at 3:02 am
Simon
How do you describe something that is indescribable? You use words like or as or metaphors. Who can describe what the Holy Spirit is like? Jesus gives us some clues. John 14 to John 17 The wind blow but no one knows it source
The Holy Spirit always points to Jesus and declares Jesus that is His purpose, the gifts of the Spirit are given to the body to accomplish that goal. The fruit of the Spirit is humility and self-control which are qualities of a dove. God is a God of order not of disorder (I cor 14) Much of what you see today in the gifts is chaos not order, lacking self-control. In all my years of being involved in the things of the spirit, self control is its hallmark, twitching and out of control laughter is not. Anything that asks you to blank out your mind is not of God anything that asks to to subject yourself to a person other than Jesus Christ is not of God. For the baptiser of the Holy Spirit is Jesus not man. Man has no spiritual power of his own it is the Holy Spirit that has power so whose power do we submit to?
March 16, 2014 at 3:04 am
Pascal
Hello Kim (and others)
I have discovered this blog/topic yesterday and it has been very fascinating and confusing at the same time.
After an extensive search for truth (mostly in new age and eastern philosophy) I discovered 3 months ago, that it was all part of “the broad way the leads to destruction”..I discovered that almost everything in this world is part of a complicated booby-trap in order to lure us away from the Lord Jesus Christ/truth.
I was so glad that I had reached the narrow path, but it did not take long before I understood that “the christian domain” on itself consists of a broad way that leads to destruction and that it is also a question of excellent discernment that will define wether you end up staying on the narrow path or not.
It was when I bought my (first) bible in the beginning of January, that I was immediately introduced to a minister of a pentecostal church in my neighborhood. The man introducing me was attending an evangelist church, but he assured me that the pentecostal minister was a very OK minister and that I did not have to be afraid of the things I read on the internet about strange things in Pentecostal churches, because this minister shared the more or less the same view as the evangelist introducing me to him.
As a complete newby, the only thing I knew is that the Catholic Church was NOT the place to be and that I had to be in a non-Catholic church.
At this moment, my main focus has been on reading the bible myself (with my understanding, not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet) and discovering different viewpoints and testimonials on the internet. It is via this kind of blogs and being in contact with people all over the world that I have learnt the most. At the same time, this Pentecostal Minister has visited me about 5 times. He is very kind and seems to love the Trinity a lot. Before becoming a minister himself, he was also into new age but he also discovered it to be wrong and became a born again christian 20 years ago. I haven’t attended his congregation yet, because I am very cautious with it. I know that it is not an obligation in their church to speak in tongues. But I’ve heard that many of them are. I therefor do not know wether they speak maximum 2 or 3 at the same time with an interpreter in church. What I do know is that they believe that the gifts of the spirit are still alive today, and that different people are given different gifts so that the whole of the body of their church gets uplifted and strong. I also know that they have prayer evenings in which they pray for ill people, for the city we live in and against territorial spirits. But he assured me that it was “not time for me yet to come and join these prayers”, because it could seem strange to me. I think that they, when joining together for those prayers they ALL pray in tongues together. I also know that the laying on of hands is used in that church, and I think it is to provoke “baptism in the spirit” and maybe some gifts of the spirit.
I myself DO believe that the receiving of the Holy Spirit comes with “fruit” (the spirit cleansing your spirit, soul, heart and mind) and “gift(s)”. But I feel most comfortable of receiving the baptism of the Spirit “by Gods will, when He decides to give it to me” (instead of having it provoked via laying on of hands) and same goes for the gifts of the spirit. If the Spirit wants to give me a certain gift and/or mission, I think it will become clear as the Spirit reveals it to me. I get the sense that even the most “kosher” Pentecostal church is too eager to induce/provoke the gifts and make that the focus of their church, which is an open door for demonic spirits again to perform “signs and miracles”..
Now, what I wanted to ask is:
1. One day after a normal prayer, that minister continued praying in a whispering voice for a certain time. I saw his mouth moving, but it was not understandable to me, he whispered without a voice and I was sitting a few metres away from him. I asked him what he had been doing after the prayer and he said he had ben praying to God in tongues (in private). That was when I first (and last) was confronted with tongues. It wasn’t out loud so an interpreter was not needed, but it gave me a strange feeling, the feeling that I did not know anything about these gifts and that I had to do some research about it. I HAD read about it before that some of them could be demonic so I was uncomfortable for not being able to know if that minister was filled with the Spirit OR was deceived by a counterfeit. My question is: If I see someone performing a so called “gift of the Spirit”, and I DOUBT wether it is good or bad, is that doubt a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in case it was indeed an expression of the Holy Spirit ?? OR: At which point does discernment turn into blasphemy ? I can only imagine me going into that congregation and seeing all gifts happening over there, without knowing if it is genuine… Does that mean that -if it was genuine- I will have blasphemed against the HS several times ? Since I have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet, I have no Spirit that helps me to discern yet wether it is true or genuine. And I am not in the position to go and “test” all people in that church the first time I enter, right ? 🙂
2. I have not been baptized in water yet. I have asked three ministers but they all say that it should happen best in a ministry that you are attending. So membership seems to be a condition that first needs to be fulfilled before they want to baptize you in water. (and often spirit) The thing is that I even met born again people that claim that Jesus is telling his true sheep to come OUT of the churches, because they are ALL corrupted by Satan and that his few true sheep are scattered around the globe and that they should seek Him and only Him and come to Him and Him only for all questions and understanding. All this gets me so confused that I simply refuse to take decisions as long as God does not baptize me Himself with His Spirit, so that Spirit can help me discern what to do and if I should attend one of those churches or not. BUT again: as long as I do not receive the Spirit, I can not know wether it is safe for me to attend such a church..; and no church, no baptism in water !
3. The baptism in the spirit. I have read that there are also counterfeit “baptisms in Spirit”. Real “event-like” experiences that one could mistake for a genuine baptism in Spirit. They are often induced/received through laying on of Hands after water baptism, when is asked by the minister for baptism in the Spirit. Again. I would NOT like to receive such a counterfeit. That is what would keep me from getting water baptized too, because I do not know what kind of “spirit or gift” would come into me if after the baptism they would perform a certain prayer of laying on of hands. And on the other hand, not attending church and just praying to God and reading the bible might eventually lead to a reception of the Baptism in the Spirit eventually, but since we are in the last minutes of end times, it is soooo difficult to stay calm and faithful because you realize that not being baptized in the Spirit means “not being born again” and therefor “not being saved”. You see where I am going at ?
4. Spiritual Warfare. I have come to understand that true born again soldiers inevitably are attacked by satan’s servants, because they form a thread against them. There is a deliverance minister from France (Allan Rich) that is a former witchdoctor that has been saved by God’s grace and that now is serving God in traveling the world and delivering people form demons everywhere. His videos and story seem very genuine, but he also seems to speak in tongues… even when doing group deliverance, he prays in tongues out loud when casting out demons sometimes… at that moment there is no interpreter and many people attending that hear him speaking in tongues. Is that OK? He is a demon-specialist and he seems to know all the counterfeit spirits by now. Could such a person still be mistaken about his own “tongues” then ?
5. I am chronically ill since 2008 so in my search for truth, I have also been searching for restoring health. I can only imagine that I have been “tagged” by demons while dabbling into new age and receiving spiritual healings. Is it OK just to trust that God will take care of those “attachments” when He blesses me with the baptizing of His Spirit ? I have heard several testimonies of people receiving the Holy Spirit and seeing different black shaded spirits leaving their body.
In short.. my worries are that I want to become truly born again, but that with all the confusion and contradictions I’ve heard up till now, I have lost faith in man and my own judgement at this point. I somewhere realize that the safest way to go is to patiently continue seeking God through reading the bible and praying and having a relationship whith Him, UNTIL hegives me the Holy Spirit for discernment and guidance. Only than I would know what church to attend (or not) and how I can have my water baptism done (if necessary). The thing is that I a too afraid that if I would decide things now with my “man-like discernment” (not lead by the HS) I could risk receiving Spirit (and gifts) that are counterfeit and that take me further away from Home, which is a thing I can not afford because I truly believe that Jesus’ second coming draws near.
I am sorry that not all of my questions are linked to this topic, but they are interwoven and I did not know where I would have posted the other ones.
Kind regards,
Pascal from Belgium
March 16, 2014 at 4:53 pm
Kim
First off blessings to you and your faith in Jesus Christ.
God has led you to truth about the Narrow way, that Jesus is the only way to God the Father John 14:6.
A bit of where I come from before I say my two cents. I am a soft-cessationist. I believe the miraculous revelatory gifts have passed. But I also believe that God will use any gifts to accomplish His will and does. Many want the sensational gifts found in Corinthians. They want the abilities of the Apostles found in Acts. What about the gifts found in Romans 12:3-8? What about the gifts in 1 Peter 4:11, speaking and serving? Not much interest here.
To me the Pentecostal/Charismatic world is a confusing one. When I was researching I simply based my conclusions on the Azusa beginnings which I deem a shaky foundation. The Pentecostals wanted to use their new found gift of tongues to evangelize the nations. The only problem is that the people they were trying to reach did not understand them. Their tongues were not real languages. Most everything we see today is false.
Issue #1
I do not believe in a personal prayer language.
When you come to believe the Gospel and follow Jesus as Lord and Savior you receive the Holy Spirit as a deposit. There is no second blessing, that only some receive.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-baptism.html
Regarding blasphemy of the Holy Spirit….this accusation is leveled at those questioning the weird manifestations in the charismatic church. I like this definition taken from Got Questions.
The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him.
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html#ixzz2wAVicXhG
I use this website a lot. It offers simple explanations on many topics. I may not agree with everything they say but mostly.
Issue #2
I just listened to a sermon last night about baptism. I was in total agreement with it so maybe this was placed in front of me just for this occasion.
When we believe we are to repent, or turn away from sin and to God, and then be baptized.
To have to prove something to be baptized I do not believe is biblical. Simon the Sorcerer at first believed and was baptized but was later found by Peter that his heart was not right before God.
Baptism is a public profession of our faith before others. We are instructed to be baptized but salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We should be circumcised or pierced by our sin and see the need for a Savior.
I do not believe that infant baptism is saving, but many dedicate their child or christen their child. This happened in the Covenant church I grew up in. But adults were dunked.
Issue #3
Indeed there are false baptisms which usually involves the person willingly receiving another spirit.
This is usually accomplished by improper laying on of the hands, (usually meant for ordination) touching the forehead or being slain in the spirit. Flee from such things.
Issue #4
One of the most important articles I read about spiritual warfare and deliverance ministries comes from Bob Dewaay.
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue78.htm
There are a couple of big names here of those involved in casting out demons but I think they are pretty much deceived and puffed up. They are accessing and interacting with the spirit world and the Bible is clear that this is divination. Why are we not to access or go through the door to the other side? We will be deceived…that is why.
Issue #5
I am sorry to hear about your health…..It kind of spurs us to get right with God. While I do not want to downplay something that you are calling “attachments” I do not think you have to worry about past occultic associations.
I have also heard that some who have actively been involved in the wrong spiritual arenas have experienced a leaving of evil spirits.
Turning away from the arts, false gifts, talismans, whatever…helps. In Acts 19:19 it says the people burned their books of magic arts. Anything one treasures over the written Word needs to go.
I would find a good Bible-teaching church. Yes I know about the people who say to get out of the churches….this may be good advice if heresy is being taught.
But we are instructed to fellowship, pray together and to break bread together. This becomes difficult when we are not in attendance.
I did not address all of your comments and concerns but something you said rang hopeful….
“I get the sense that even the most “kosher” Pentecostal church is too eager to induce/provoke the gifts and make that the focus of their church, which is an open door for demonic spirits again to perform “signs and miracles”..
Pray, read your Bible, find a good teacher who help you live for the Lord, hate sin, grow in the Word, and help decide what your spiritual gift is, (everyone receives one) .
Blessings.
March 17, 2014 at 4:32 pm
Pascal
Amen and thanks Kim! Some very good pieces of advice here.
The link you sent me from Bob Dewaay is indead awesome. What a beautiful insight this man received!! (and how many are deceived still in their warfare worldview) I hear of many people being born again, being “targeted” by Satan and suffering spiritual warfare themselves from time to time. Getting a minister doing exorcism seems not to be the way, sticking to getting to know the Word and God is. But what should such a person do while being harassed by a spirit ? Is it ok for themselves to cry out “i rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ” when such things happen ? Or should such a person just ignore/endure the attacks instead of interacting with them when telling the spirit to leave them alone?
You said: “When we believe we are to repent, or turn away from sin and to God, and then be baptized.” Isn’t there something missing in this sentence ?
I have read your links about “spirit baptism” and “blasphemy of the Spirit”… There are some very credible people like for example David Pawson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMqyC0ALJeE) who claim that one is not born again (and therefor not saved) unless one has received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. He clearly specifies that this “being FILLED with the Spirit” is an undeniable event that has to take place before one can call themselves truly born again. So, to him it is clear that such a clear pouring in of the spirit until you “literally overflow” is normal and necessary.
It is true what you say about the gifts… that pentecostals aim to get the “exotic ones” rather than those who have to do with less exotic qualities. But that does not necessarily mean that there is not a genuine version of the exotic ones that may manifest in someone to this day if God wants it so. And in that case “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” to me seems very possible in the same way that the pharisees where blaspheming Jesus 2000 years ago… If you see a genuine manifestation of an exotic gift, and say it’s of the devil, I presume this would be a BATHS.
Kind regards, Pascal
P.S.: For my first email, I asked to notify me for follow ups and new posts, but I did not get such a notification email.. just to let you know, maybe there is a bug somewhere.
March 18, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Kim
You raise some interesting questions about oppression…It does happen. It happened to me.
Many have contacted me because of this issue. Some have been youth from International House of Prayer (IHOP) some from Bethel (Bill Johnson), some from new age methods. Some sense an evil spirit, some cut themselves, some have trouble praying and reading the Bible. Some walk away from the faith.
Everyone is different. Most find help by constant prayer and fellowship and Bible reading.
At one time I was “open” to the spiritual world and someone involved in a false ministry, A Course in Miracles, send me a spirit. They were not saved and could not discern it was evil. That spirit came to me that night as a cold bony hand touched my neck. I knew it was evil and rebuked the spirit but slipped out of bed and prayed till it left.
I came to understand that to be able to intercept this spirit that I was in a wrong place. I was guilty of divination. Prescription drugs, Anti-depressants were the culprit. I never desired or asked for these spiritual experiences but they taught me about them and how deceptive and alluring the experiences are. Indeed Satan comes as an angel of light and can give false joy.
Anyway… I had to burn everything I had written, channeled, to free myself of the night manifestations.
****
Indeed we need to be born again. How can we tell? Our lives are transformed. We hate sin. Romans is a great book about salvation.
I only listened briefly to David Pawson…I saw another video of his and switched to it instead. He was speaking at IHOP…a most troublesome and false ministry. One should not share the platform with false teachers. Also I listened quickly to a video of his about Jude. I was shocked when he added to scripture verse 3. He said “who should be nameless” meaning that one should not name false teachers. His method was one of paraphasing. That worked fine for him because it allowed him to speak at IHOP and not rebuke the false prophecies.
****
All gifts are meant to edify the church. We are servants. We wash feet.
March 18, 2014 at 5:31 pm
Kim
Pawson with IHop leader
same IHOP leader with these poor girls
July 17, 2014 at 12:17 pm
davp
Please, if the lord Jesus Christ be your Lord, and you truly belong to him.
Then, and only then may the Lord Jesus Christ permit your help!
I am terrified, I have joined a band at a baptist church, but it seems a lot of
pentecostal types are at that service. And I was told this week that I must hold a chord in the song so the congregation can “worship”. I have been a Christian along time, and this is freaking me out! I know they are challenging me! I do not agree with this blasphemous contrived freak show! I am scared nearly the whole church has given themselves over, like some sort of invasion of the body snatches! Maybe the Devil has already been tossed out of heaven and one third the angels! And they are occupying man! The Devil setting himself up as God in the temple and proclaiming himself as God! Bringing the tongues spirit which is the fire from heaven in full view of man, in revelations. I had an experience about 6 months ago when a friend of my wife suggested we go to field of dreams church. And knowing this woman was an out there type. I said, “lets go”, I will prove to you once and for all that this is not of God! When we got there, they sang the words hallelujah for tree quarters of an hour! Then a man preached about one line in revelation which had hallelujah in it, while people shook, writhed and jerked even on the ground! Then a missionary man talked about his trip to Brazil, asking for more money for his next mission, never conveying what the money was spent on! The preacher said “I feel the power of God” and said “bam” facing the old missionary! And the missionary responded “o” as he crossed his hands across his chest, in a too long delayed reflex! They said other stuff, had two money collections in all. Then to the shock of my wife and I, we are certain we heard them say “now lets worship the beast”! And they said lets join hands to which me and my wife terrified at this point grabbed both of each others hands so no-one could grab ours, and we left! _This is shocking, like Simone the sorcerer giving of the spirit for money and stuff, maybe the mark of the beast is this slain in the spirit. That is why the mark is either in the hand {the giver}, and the forehead{the receiver} and is done for money, lest they kill you by telling you, you are not saved! That this is mystery Babylon -God confusing the languages of man, even Isaiah mentions of God speaking in an unknown tongue to this people he is angry with, in which further speaks of they will fall back be injured and taken! Even Paul uses this scripture when discussing tongues!
Yet I am worried I am deceived myself, and are scared of blaspheming the holy spirit, by saying this is the work of the devil! And that my wife and I didn’t hear them say “Now lets worship the beast” That perhaps we are the ones of . So please, Please pray for my guidance and protection, and how to fight against this!
-David P.
July 17, 2014 at 7:34 pm
Kim
My goodness…
If I ever heard anyone say ” now let’s worship the beast” I would be outa there as fast as I could run…
You not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. The passage that speaks of this is about the Pharisees accusing Jesus of being demon-possessed. Today it is continued unbelief and rejection of Holy Spirit and His work.
The part about the “bam” makes me think of heretic Todd Bentley.
Will pray…I always pray that the Holy Spirit keeps me on the narrow path and in truth….even if takes a lot of conviction. Stay in the Word and study the Bible.
kim
July 19, 2014 at 9:52 am
davp
Thnks Kim,
its like invasion of the body snatchers!
August 20, 2015 at 1:44 pm
AK
Thank you so much for such an interesting, edifying discussion.
I have a question – I would like you to tell me, plainly, and with Biblical backup, what, exactly, constitutes salvation.
Thank you.
August 20, 2015 at 2:58 pm
Kim
When we are saved we are saved from sin and the wrath of God. Romans 5:9 “…how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him.” 1 Thessalonians 5:9 “For God did not appoint us to wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
So salvation saves us from the wrath of God which is the result of sin.
We are saved by faith. First we hear the gospel. Ephesians 1:3. Then we must believe. Belief is trust. Romans 1:16 “…. is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.”
When one believes…there is a change of mind about God. We come into agreement with Him that we sinners in need of Christ. This is repentance. It is a turn in the opposite direction. Acts 3:19 says, : Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out…..”
We believe what Jesus did for us on the Cross. He died, and was resurrected. It is a gift that we cannot earn. This gift of eternal life is only available through Jesus…Acts 4:12. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
August 24, 2015 at 4:17 pm
reigndrop3n1
Kim, I read all your comments on another post where the kid left bethel and you are absolutely brilliant and I made this word press acct. just to talk to you. It’s about my involvement with bethel! I’ve never been there and have nothing thrilling to tell you. It’s just that after my first Jesus culture concert my husband was deployed the very day, I really got into the worship from Kim and I thought she was the only anointed one out of the whole bunch and I bought their music and would worship God. My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I felt the tug of the Holy Spirit many times but when I finally listened I was told to destroy everything from there and I did. I let my son video tape me and it’s online. I am ashamed that I fell for something as fake as this. I am a spirt filled, true blue, blood bought born again believer and I have the spirit of discernment yet I was deceived. I love the presence of God! I love to worship! I love to sing and I truly thought I was worshiping God! I’ve repented and ask God to forgive me for falling for that. So it’s all good with me and the King! I have stop worshipping God all together, just not like I did and I believe what you said about feeling oppressed! I can tell you that I have been depressed and almost feel like I’m away from God and I would never go into that state. I long for The Lord Jesus to come. I ache for Him. We do everything we can to separate ourselves from the world and we stay to ourselves. It’s not easy living a Christian life. You have so much knowledge and I really don’t want to go into what bethel is…we both know. I would like to know how to get it out of my life for good and if I opened up some doors that were never meant to be opened. I’m constantly being oppressed! Have to quote scripture all the time! Spiritual warfare. I sleep with my armor on… I’m not even sure what I’m trying to say except I need help. We’re not from here and have no spiritual guidance. I do have some friends, a married couple,from back home that sold all they had and moved to bethel and after I pointed out their new cd Synesthsia was demonic and God truly opened my eyes, I posted proof of how demonic it was, the couple closed their Facebook acct and wow! No communication with them. They went from “hey everyone, join us on this adventure” to never hearing from them! Total silence. I pray for them a lot cause I know what it’s like to get wrapped up into bethels worship. They were worship leader and pastor at Assembly of God. I could never get into Jenn Johnson. She was just way to sexy to be leading worship. The actions, see through clothes. I cannot believe satan is robbing souls from God by deceiving them.it broke my heart for last few weeks. I have learned and know that what this comes down to is openly blaspheming the HOLYSPIRIT. That is the one unforgivable sin. Satan is trying to rob souls for God. If it’s not aborted babies is open blasphemy from babies in Christ. I do know they are heavy Into yoga and they say with the new synesthesia cd there are 2 is no words and this is How God wants us to experience him in worship. This is crazy. There are some hypnotist on you tube that show how you have to be hypnotized to open that part of your brain that that will allow you to see music in color. It’s so demonic. Please be careful if you look at that. Thankfully I’m not a student there because they get demons imparted to them! We watched Heidi baker do it to this kid on a clip and I had pastor friend from back home say that was not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a gentlemen. The kid was in pain. Straight up demons. It’s very unnerving that I allowed that in my house for last year and a half. I’m ashamed. I love The Lord and the means I go to to make sure there is nothing between us so that I can be close and look how I was deceived. I need a little help getting back on my feet. Please be careful when your in those chat windows. I’m praying the blood of Jesus over you right now, in the name of Jesus.Lord I know you are using Kim and I ask for your protection as she combats the enemy in your precious mighty name Jesus. I know this was a site about the gift of tounges and I was desperately trying to contact you and this was the one I finally got it to open up to comment. Be careful Girl! Please respond! I tried a couple others and nothing!
August 24, 2015 at 6:02 pm
reigndrop3n1
Davp I’m not sure if your still reading this but I’m want to tell you what you saw was an in your face blasphemy of God! Satan has a counterfeit for everything God has. What was once used to edify and encourage the church has become a mockery of God. It will shake your faith! Please draw close to The Lord. The word says if you draw neigh to God he will draw neigh to you and satan has to flee. Satan cannot stand the presence of God. I like that. That’s why I try to press in when I’m doing my music. I want to feel His presence. Please encourage your wife as well! Satan knows his day is short and he’s is openly deceiving the church. Hold fast to that which is true… The word of God! You were very brave to post what happen to you. Thank you! People need to know this open blasphemy of the things of God. I’ve seen it and I’ve seen people act like they were talking in tounges and I had no idea you could fake that. I’m spirit filled. I can’t stand anything fake. The Holy Spirit is a gift from God and the tounges are your prayer language satan does not understand. You can’t just turn it off and on. It doesn’t work like that. The Infilling of the Holy Spirit is to give you power to live your Christian walk. Don’t you think the devil wants to cause confusion so the true saints of God can’t have that extra power they need to combat the onslaught of the enemy. I could not understand why someone would feel the need to fake this. It’s the flesh. Satan is the author of confusion is and thats exactly what this does. The thief cometh not but to still, kill and destroy but Jesus says I have come that you might have life and life more abundantly. (John 10:10) I’m so glad you saw through what was going on at that church. Stay close to home. Please continue to play your guitar and worship The Lord. The devil would love to shut that down because it can help you grow in The Lord. Please don’t give up on God. I only wanted to respond because I know what it’s like to have questions and no one to help. I hope I did! God’s blessings to you and your wife.
August 24, 2015 at 7:50 pm
Kim
Hi reigndrop….
I am so glad you found a comment box that was open…I have closed many of them….One can always email me personally and that address is on the contact page.
You ask some very important questions…like what now? It is sometimes difficult to close the door to the occult once one enters through it….Everyone seems to be different.
What happened to me was very similar to your situation…I have the gift of discernment….yet it seems I was allowed to fall into a deceptive situation…I asked ‘why Lord?” Why me”? It was a struggle that only served to strengthen my faith. It was a trial that the Lord used to teach me how easy it is to actually take a wrong path.
I did the same things your are doing now….Staying in scripture, putting on armor.
Just get back to the basics…..Bible study…serve in your church….Pray.. We are servants…..Some of things you said about me was very kind and I thank you but I always wish to remain small. God uses the small and the weak to do His will. You are doing the right things…..sometimes it just takes time for the devil to give up…
Thank you for writing about your experience…. I learned some new things. Seeing the music in color? wow. How enticing that would be.
I usually advise the person to reflect on the reason that the deception started and to go back to that point. The reason is usually a fleshy one…and the liar Satan uses our senses to the fullest degree.
When I was listening to enemy it was not a scary situation… I was thrilled that the Lord was using me and it made me feel very special. I would feel wells of joy within me…It was pleasant., But when He opened my eyes…I understand what you are saying about shame. I was so humiliated. But it served the purpose.
God is now using you to share the truth…..Blessing and love to you In Christ.
Feel free to post here if you have any problems or contact me directly,
kim
August 25, 2015 at 3:06 pm
reigndrop3n1
Thank you! You are the only person brave enough to respond to me! I thank The Lord for your boldness and I pray that he will increase it! We need solid people like you to go to. If you have any question feel free to ask. I am not afraid to speak out against the devil. He hates me. I was a jail minister years ago and I learned how to combat the enemy and I realized he sees me as a threat. I believe the reason I was so draw was my husband was deployed and I went to the tube watching videos and I truly thought they were light and wow! It tells you the day we are living in if the devil is so bold in the churches. Now that I went through it myself I can confidently speak out. I am still hard on myself and I’m trying to push through it. We’re not from here so we don’t have a church. Just trying to stay fed on our own and it’s hard, which that may be another reason why I fell into the trap and didn’t listen to the Tug of the Holy Spirit. That was my husband rational of how I allowed myself to be deceived! He’s right! Thanks again my sister! Bless you as you help others! Just your response was enough to brighten my day!
September 18, 2015 at 11:55 pm
isaiah41v10
I found this post and the comments very interesting and helpful. It is really scary to think that so many people who speak in tongues may be deceived. I am concerned that this may have happened to me and will look for a mature Christian to pray with about this. The problem is that many Christians I know are completely anti-tongues and others are Pentecostals. It is refreshing to read a balanced and Biblical view.
When I read this post I realised that I had been proud of speaking in tongues and had to repent of this to God.
October 1, 2015 at 7:29 am
Jeff
I walked in a church long ago, as a kid, where people were talking in tongues. Scared the bejebbes out of me.
Seeing the movie ‘The Exercist’ just prior prolly didn’t belp matters much, though. 🙂 So Kimmy, whats your take on the SIT thing again, i forgot.
October 1, 2015 at 7:37 am
Jeff
Hey also, im not sure where to post my question about this but your AMAZING discernment skilles are needed. I am sitting here listening to a Ebook by ‘John Eckhardt’ Any thoughts bout this guy. I always trust and respect your opinion on such things. 🙂 Oh and LONGTIME NO SEE! (6 years or so?) So glad your still ‘pressing on’ good sister!
October 1, 2015 at 10:14 am
Kim
Wow…Hi there Jeff…what a pleasure to hear from you…It seems not just too long ago I was reviewing some comments on an article that someone recently commented on,,,,I saw your comments and remembered some of the convo’s and the passing of your father.
I don’t write much anymore as I am concentrating on teaching Sunday School, but post a lot of articles from some of my more articulate friends.
I googled John Eckhardt and it seems he promotes the office of prophet and is heaviiy charismatic. I stay away from anyone these days featured in Charisma Mag.
My position on SIT is pretty much the same. I think the gift has primarily passed but have heard of a few situations where the real thing may have occurred. Mostly in missions and not in the US.
Gosh has it been 6 years? What are you doing these days?
October 17, 2015 at 9:21 pm
Jeff Starnes
Thanks, I knew i felt something off, hence me asking your opinion on it.
What have I been doing these days? Well presently ‘Church Shopn’. I think I found a good one last week, (MAYBE’)
Hobe Sound Bible Church. Primarily a Wesleyan flavored Church/College with some good ole fashion faith based traditions that appear to be (so far)’grounded in the fundamentals’ of the word, They got wood pews and everything! Haha.
Any live feeds of your bible school? Is it for kids or adults too? would love some transcripts at least!
Christ is Lord,
Jeff
October 17, 2015 at 9:35 pm
Jeff Starnes
(sorry to ‘de rail’ but…) here is a link to the blogs from of the 8 pastors of the church I’m talking about. Hobe Sound Bible Church. Perhaps you could give a quick scan of some of the blogs and give me your overall feelings?
Again I really trust your sound judgment and peripheral knowledge on all things biblical. You have a great talent of reading between the lines and in the past have been easily fooled. School me a little, sister!
http://hobesoundbiblechurch.com/daves-corner/
October 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Jeff Starnes
TYPO: In the past ‘I” have been easily fooled. lol Sorry! I really could use/need a :EDIT: button 😉
October 17, 2015 at 9:56 pm
Jeff Starnes
Here is there DOCTRINAL BELIEFS:
WE BELIEVE:
That the Bible is the inspired and only infallible and authoritative written Word of God.(II Timothy 3:16; II Peter 1:21)
There is one God, eternally existent in three persons — God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Holy Ghost. (Deuteronomy 6:4; Hebrews 11:3)
In the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His miracles, His vicarious and atoning death, His bodily resurrection, His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and His personal future return to this earth in power and glory. (Matthew 3:16-17)
In the Blessed Hope — the rapture of the Church at Christ’s coming. (Daniel 7:13-14; Matthew 24:30-31; Acts 1:11; I Thessalonians 4:15-17; Revelation 22:20)
That the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ. (Psalm 130:4; Jeremiah 36:3; Acts 13:38-39; Romans 5:1; I John 3:7; Revelation 19:8)
That there is one Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity, Who came from the Father and the Son, to convict the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; to regenerate the believing sinner, and to indwell, guide, instruct, cleanse and empower the believer for godly living and service. (John 14:16, 17, 26; John 15:26; Matthew 28:19; II Corinthians 13:14)
That regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential for personal salvation. (Isaiah 55:3; John 3:3, 5; Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13; Titus 3:5)
In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a holy life. (Leviticus 11:44-45; Luke 1:73–75; John 17:17; I Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 10:14-15)
In the resurrection of both the saved and the lost — the one to everlasting life, the other to everlasting damnation. (Psalm 9:17; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28-29; John 14:1-3; Romans 14:10; I Corinthians 15:10; Revelation 20:12-13; Revelation 21:8)
October 23, 2015 at 7:45 am
Kim
Hi Jeff,
Sorry for the delay in responding….I did take a look at the blog with the link you and it looks good…..can I come to your church? lol…
naw…no feeds of my Sunday School class…..I use Bible Study Fellowship and Calvary Church curriculum which is pretty well written.
November 9, 2015 at 11:03 am
Jeff
No kidding!
I used to attend a ‘Calvary Church’ in Palm Beach County!
I thought it was a break off from a church called ‘Christ Fellowship’. i wasn’t to comfortable with CF but Calvary, for the most part, did the trick. HS Bible Church is actually also a pretty big school with a live on campus. The church has (8) pastors on the board. lol
It still maintains a very personal ‘small town’ church charm, though. There is a small ‘old time’ PA community on the grounds, as well, that has a ‘almost’ Amish flavor to it. (VERY OLD SCHOOL! LOL)
I believe there philosophy, is rooted, in Wesleyan principals. (RIGHT UP MY ALLY! )
I finally found a Wesleyan Church, unlike my once great church, that I will leave un named here on the enterweb (if you want it done right the first time call a Mxxxxxxxt!) that hasn’t spun so far to the left that the sound guys wake up every Sunday morn, at wood stock – with the pastors expanding on there beliefs, on the importance of fasting-and the laws of karma!
June 16, 2016 at 8:20 pm
Darby
I know i’m late with this but as far as i have read this lady is anti charismatic even now. She didn’t even know tongues existed when she was a new christian, yet look what happened to her about tongues. It’s an amazing story!