Dave Hunt on Christian Psychology
Excerpts taken from Radio Transcripts, air date March 7th 2009
“Yes, Carl Jung had his own spirit guide. Philemon he called him, that’s where he got most of his major theories. “A screeching chorus of ghosts….” These are his words, filled his home outside of Zurich and in three days and three nights under their inspiration he wrote his major work Septem Sermones ad Mortuos-The Seven Sermons to the Dead. He believed that he traveled with the dead in the spirit world that he was the preacher, the pastor to the dead, and it goes on and on. His major theories came out of the occult and we could talk about Carl Rogers and many others and so this is where it comes from.”
“Now I want to quote Martin L. Gross. He is an investigative reporter, not a Christian; in fact he is an anti-Christian, so that makes all these words all the more interesting. He says, “Freud’s atheistic ideas have paradoxically influenced ministers, priests and rabbis who now flock to courses in pastoral counseling making many members of the cloth seem more Freudian than Christian.” Rather interesting, so Christian psychology isn’t Christian psychology. It is psychology from the world which is atheistic, it’s occult manifestations actually, that’s the origin of it, much of it, not all of it and they’ve brought it into the church and they’ve dressed it up in biblical language.”
“So let’s take it from James Dobson himself. We’re not trying to criticize James Dobson, he’s a very sincere man, a lot of what he does we have to commend him for, but on the other hand in his Focus on the Family magazine he said that (well I’m going by memory) this is a paraphrase, but it is very close to an exact quote. He said “Christian psychology is a good profession, a wonderful profession for any young Christian to aspire to (now these are his words) provided their faith is strong enough to withstand the humanism to which they will be exposed.” Now you have to ask yourself why do Christians have to go to humanists? They are anti-Christians, they hate God, they hate the Bible, but why must we go and study under them and study humanism in order to learn how to improve the Bible and to counsel from the Bible. It doesn’t make sense, but this is exactly what it is. In fact, Dr. Dobson and Dr. Gary Collins-he was interviewing Collins on his radio program, they pointed out that psychology is based upon the same five foundation points as atheistic humanism, but they said we can integrate it with the Bible.”
“Now I believe that the Bible is sufficient. It’s been sufficient for Christians, for centuries, for thousands of years. Why then do we have to integrate godless theories that aren’t scientific, that don’t work and that are even harmful? Well, but we are going to sort through them and we’re going to throw out the ones that aren’t right, but we’ll use the ones that are biblical. I want to quote again the last few verses of one of my favorite poems. It says: Who would leave the noon day bright, to grope mid-shadows dim, and who would leave the fountain head to drink the muddy stream where men have mixed what God has said with every dreamer’s dream? I don’t think we should mix this stuff in with the Bible, because the Bible is perfect. This is God’s Word, and it claims as you quoted earlier 2 Peter 1:3 “According as his divine power hath given us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue…” Now the whole secret to the Christian life-I mean it’s not me struggling to live a good life-it’s Christ in you, Christ is my life and I do not believe that Christ in me needs any help from a psychotherapist and I don’t care whether you call it Christian psychology or what. What we need is to allow Christ to have his way in our lives. We need to deny self and take up the cross and follow Christ and trust Him to live His life through us. That’s all we are saying Tom. Search the scriptures daily, get back to the Word of God. Unfortunately Christian psychology undermines our confidence in the scripture because it says it’s not sufficient and we need some help.”
DiscernIt 
19 comments
September 24, 2009 at 11:57 am
cheryl U.
You know, there is something that has really bothered me about at least some brands of Christian psychology for years. That is the strong emphasis on self esteem. Especially that we have to be sure our children and young people have a strong sense of self esteem to survive the world we live in. If we make sure our kids have a strong self esteem, how are they going to see their need for Jesus and His salvation? Paul called himself, “the chief of sinners”. It just seems to me this self esteem teaching goes against the whole of the teaching of who we are apart from Jesus. And with Jesus, it is not “self” that is to be promoted, but Him. Yes He loves us, even in our sin. However, He never lifts up and exalts who we are at all that I can tell.
Does any one else believe there is a problem with this teaching?
September 24, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Christian Psychology? « DiscernIt
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September 24, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Kim
I too have a problem with the self-esteem teaching. I do remember all the self-help books of the 70’s though. I’m Ok You’re Ok for instance.
The fruits of the spirit do not speak of self-esteem or self-love either. Joy, love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Nothing there about loving oneself.
But isn’t it true that we already love ourselves way too much as it is. Don’t we spend every day picking out our favorite foods, selecting our favorite blouse or shirt so we be lookin’ good! Do we run off from work when staying a few minutes to help someone else would be in order. Isn’t impatience a form of “How dare I be made to wait?” Ah..no we love ourselves very much.
Mat 22:39 And [the] second [is] like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
This verse also tell us that we already love ourselves……so I agree that self-esteem is usually not the problem.
September 25, 2009 at 5:48 am
Charles Roger Young
The goal of pastoral counseling for most practitioners is to help people without excluding God from the solution.
The secular world of ‘Science’ has determined that God is inconsistent with their views of everything. Psychology considers itself a science, and therefore has excluded God from the discipline entirely.
Please don’t confuse the activities of secular counselors with those of pastoral counselors. There is little common ground.
September 25, 2009 at 6:59 am
cheryl U.
Charles,
I don’t think anyone has anything at all against the type of pastoral counceling that you speak of above.
What some, including me, do see as a problem is when Christian counceling becomes mixed with secular psychology and thereby uses and teaches principles that aren’t from God in trying to help God’s people.
September 25, 2009 at 8:09 am
Kim
I went to my blogroll and clicked on Eastern Regional Watch. Steve Muse has a collection of just under 100 articles on Psychology & the Bible.
http://erwm.com/Psychology%20%26%20the%20Bible.htm
I enjoyed this article in particular.
http://www.christiandiscernment.com/Psychology.htm
A few excerpts
“All the world’s therapies, and all the world’s men, couldn’t put Debbie back together again.” Even Christian therapists made no headway. Being a Christian, and desperate for answers, I finally tried something “new,” the Word of God . I dusted off my Bible and began again, sorting through the tangled psychological theories of man to come to the pure wisdom of God.
The Bible instructs us to assemble together for praise, prayer, Bible study, worship, and fellowship. Many “one another” verses in the New Testament stress the importance of our relationships with others. God says that believers are competent to counsel one another (Romans 15:14).
To begin a closer examination of how God’s Word clashes with psychology, we must establish a basic framework for discussion. The words of our God in Isaiah are a good place to begin:
“‘Woe to the rebellious children,’ says the Lord, ‘who take counsel, but not of Me, and who devise plans, but not of My Spirit, that they may add sin to sin; who walk to go down to Egypt, and have not asked My advice, to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!” (Isaiah 30:1, 2)
God has clearly told us that our counsel must be rooted in Him alone, or we are adding sin to sin. We are choosing a sinful, rebellious system of counsel to overcome the sins in our lives
September 26, 2009 at 6:38 am
Eric Sawyer
I enjoyed the first paragraph. Actually that is all I read.
In my teens I was reading Herman Hesse who got some of his idea of Carl Gustav Yung. They were so poisonous that the entire course of my life was forced into destruct mode. God met me at my lowest ebb and revealed Jesus in me.
Have you ever considered the work of Dr. Richard Ganz and Dr. Jay E. Adams, the former is a Biblical Counsellor (ex. Freudian Psychologist) who pastor as Presbyterian Church in Ottawa, and the latter started a couselling technique known as Nouthetic Counselling, based on a Greek word that implies a wholistic view to counselling.
I thank GOD for their counselling ministries and how useful (guide by the Holy Spirit) their ideas have been to me.
We have so much to learn about ourselves and it is always good to keep an open mind and not slam every field of study just because we think we understand what it is about.
September 26, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Kim
I am part of a lay ministry group in my church. There are eight of us who felt called into this ministry. We have various gifts from the Holy Spirit. We have a lay minister, two nurses, someone who has the gift of hospitality, and two of us with a strong background in scripture and teaching. When someone is in need, the Pastor or the chairman, determines who is best suited to call on the person. It may be someone who is sick, needs assistance, wants communion, is depressed, weak spiritually, has family problems, lost a loved one, etc. We make first contact. If further assistance is needed, then the Pastor is best qualified to take over.
We administer to one another freely using scripture. We pray for the person in need and for each other as we seek wisdom from the Holy Spirit to guide and instruct us.
October 7, 2009 at 8:13 am
Michelle
Several years ago my husband and I went to a Christian counselor for help. Never once did he open the bible or pray with us. Then we got his bill. Where did we get help? From the Bible and repenting of our sin. That’s what churches and Pastors can offer people for free. I enjoy reading.
October 7, 2009 at 8:45 am
Kim
Michelle,
Thank you for your insight.
I think of the Bible as my manual on how to live my life for the Glory of God.
October 9, 2009 at 6:46 am
indywatchman
Kim,
This is a very good post and and eye opener. I have been reading Ecclesiastes and found that this is a book which is very little understood by Christians, and loved by atheist.
Solomon was the gifted son, the wisest of the wise, who became a charismatic philosopher (psychologist), who became the rejected apostate. The Book of Ecclesiastes is the autobiography of a man confused, in the midst of great wisdom, and bordered madness. He was a man who had all the answers, but found himself lost and confused.
Solomon’s sin is my sin, and the sin of every man who will try and reason his way to an understanding of God’s mind. Solomon cursed “living” as most of us have. Trying to live for God is going to be the death of me, and many simply cannot go on, and find Solomon’s words to be the true gospel, “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity, and a chasing after wind.” Solomon could no longer discern good and evil, and his mind whirled with his great intellect trying to nail down something, with his mental abilities, that was in the beginning a gift, not something he discovered through deduction or experimentation, or attending the right school.
Eating from that tree, the one that now allows us to know both good and evil, was a very bad idea, as we have come to find out. Where once our grand parents, Adam and Eve, had instant access to truth and knowledge, and never quibbled about whether this was best or that was best, they simply knew. Since that time every simple question has to be rationalized, questioned, bisected, run past the board, checked on the internet, taken to our “pastor”, and prayed about. My professor of pastoral counseling, many years ago, plainly confessed to the whole class, that psychology was not the answer, and that if you were to pose a question to ten different “doctors” you would get ten different answers. I remembered that, and it was like a rock in my shoe, a serious question about the profession. The dilemma is the same one Solomon deals with; we take too much stock in our abilities to reason ourselves out of a problem. Our minds have been poisoned and we can no longer trust the things it produces.
Well, just wanted to add this,
Blessings,
Steve Blackwell
http://www.IndyWatchman.com
October 9, 2009 at 8:48 am
Kim
Steve,
I thank you for adding the perspective of Ecclesiates. You are saying…Solomon, though known for his wisdom became lost when human reasoning overshadows God’s wisdom.
Oh yes, how we long to know secret knowledge and when we seek it, we may find that we have indeed accessed the wrong tree.
Very interesting.
October 9, 2009 at 9:46 am
indywatchman
Kim,
To say that Solomon was lost as far as his salvation would be a stretch, but he was very much lost in the deep dark woods of his own reasoning. Solomon’s crisis was, I believe, the ultimate crises we all must come to, and that is that we can not reason ourselves out of the messes we make in life. Whether Solomon or Steve Blackwell it is the same, we must come to the conclusion that God is the answer to every question, and that God the Father points us to the Son. That conclusion will register perfectly with David’s sentiments of himself, and that is that we are nothing: our reasonings, our abilities and talents, our past achievements, or position in this world, it is all a big zero, and means nothing, except in our own minds, and that is the problem.
The vast wisdom that Solomon had was not something he achieved on his own, it was a gift. He knew intuitively and instantly, through a very delicate connection with the Holy Spirit, what he should do in every circumstance. Revelation was the answer to knowing God then, and it is the answer now. Without revelation we remain in the dark regardless that we pray ten times a day, and pay our tithes, sing in the choir, and attend bible school. God gives us what we need, always. That is the great mystery and riddle of Scriptures, and it is the stumbling block, even for most Christians, as it was for Solomon. Jesus’ fatal declaration was His making Himself equal with the Father, whose name to Moses was “I Am.” If Jesus wanted to simply state His pre-existence to the Jews He could have just said that, “Before Abraham was I was,” but what He said was that, “before Abraham was I Am.” God is known by many names in the Old Testament, each preceded by Yahweh, Jehovah (LORD), I Am. When God told Moses to tell the people that I AM has sent you it was a very strange use of language. The obvious next question is “You are What?” God was giving the people a blank check for them to fill in. Do you need strength? I AM your strength. Do you need provisions? I AM your provider, or, do you need wisdom? I AM your wisdom. Solomon, like us, got a little heady with his abilities and ventured off the narrow way into a way, even he, could not handle, even with all this giftedness. At that point he was just a man, doing what men do, thinking their way out of trouble. But, today we have inside information, that Solomon didn’t have, we have the New Testament with its revelation that our life is tied to our death, that all our reasonings and abilities must go, they are faulty and poisoned and can not be trusted. Solomon could not do it and James Dobson can not do it. There is still only one answer, I AM____________, you fill in the blank. Jesus is our Salvation, in whatever circumstance we find ourselves.
Thanks Kim,
Steve Blackwell
http://www.IndyWatchman.com
November 6, 2009 at 11:04 am
Betty
Nice article. It’s certainly thought provoking. Sometimes it’s hard to know what God is asking us to do. To help answer this question I’m reading a book called decodeyourmessages.com/” rel=”nofollow”>”Decoding The Spiritual Messages of Everyday Life” by Dr. Paul DeBell. He combines spirituality and psychology to help overcome challenges and become more fulfilled, perceptive, and creative. I’m really learning alot!
November 6, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Kim
Hi Betty,
I took a quick look at the above link and this book is not biblical. These self-help books draw people away from learning about the truth found in scripture and how to truly live for Jesus Christ.
November 6, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Steve Blackwell
Betty,
Kim is right. Be very careful who you allow to enter your heart with instructions for life. Jesus gave us the mysterious de-coder to life in several places, in Scripture. Jn 7:17 says plainly that “If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether My teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” You see the answer is not with any “Doctor,” the answer is with you. That’s the way it was then, and that’s the way it is now. Seek as you may, the answer does not lay in combining “spirituality and psychology to help overcome challenges and become more fulfilled, perceptive, and creative,” neither is it “Focus on the Family,” it is focus on Jesus. Jesus said that when “we seek Him with all our heart we will find Him,” otherwise what would the poor do who cannot afford the good Doctor’s books, or a trip to the psychologist.
These things are not said to tease or make fun of you; they are the truth. We are a deceived race of people and we constantly seek out answers by continuing to eat from the wrong tree. The Tree of Life is what we find written in the Bible; eat it, and avoid that other tree.
Blessings.
Steve Blackwell
June 2, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Erica Lee, LMFT, Psy.D.
I am a Christian psychologist and Christianity and psychology do not have to contradict each other. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about what psychology and therapy really are, mostly due to people hearing only snippets of information from pop psychology. There are many different psychological theories and the fact that a particular theorist was not a Christian does not make the whole field unChristian. In fact you can find a great deal of Biblical support for many psychological theories. For example, cognitive-behavioral therapy, which focuses on changing thoughts and behaviors, is supported by the verse , “..we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ,” as well as many other verses. You may be interested in looking at my Los Angeles Christian Therapy articles on Examiner.com, in particular the articles entitled “What is Therapy?” and, “Raising your self-esteem by drawing closer to God.” The articles are supported by scripture and also draw upon my psychology education to provide some advice in managing difficulties.
June 2, 2010 at 3:42 pm
IWTT
Just out of curiosity, do these commentaries support your use of the 1/2 verse of the scripture…
10:5 and every (thought captive) arrogant obstacle 16 that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey 17 Christ. NETBIBLE)
Notes on Greek translation…
16 tn The phrase “every arrogant obstacle” could be translated simply “all arrogance” (so L&N 88.207).
17 tn Grk “to the obedience of Christ”; but since Χριστοῦ (Cristou) is clearly an objective genitive here, it is better to translate “to make it obey Christ.”
2 Corinthians 10:5 (English Standard Version)
5We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, (ESV)
Matthew Henry Commentary…
[1.] What opposition is made against the gospel by the powers of sin and Satan in the hearts of men. Ignorance, prejudices, beloved lusts, are Satan’s strong-holds in the souls of some; vain imaginations, carnal reasonings, and high thoughts, or proud conceits, in others, exalt themselves against the knowledge of God, that is, by these ways the devil endeavours to keep men from faith and obedience to the gospel, and secures his possession of the hearts of men, as his own house or property. But then observe, [2.] The conquest which the word of God gains. These strong-holds are pulled down by the gospel as the means, through the grace and power of God accompanying it as the principal efficient cause. Note, The conversion of the soul is the conquest of Satan in that soul.
Cross Reference to 2 Cor 10:5 is Isaiah 2:11
11(A) The haughty looks of man shall be brought low,
and the lofty pride of men shall be humbled,
and the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary
5. imaginations–rather, “reasonings.” Whereas “thought” expresses men’s own purpose and determination of living after their own pleasure [TITTMANN].
high thing–So it ought to be translated ( Rom 8:39 ). A distinct Greek word from that in Eph 3:18 , “height,” and Rev 21:16 , which belongs to God and heaven from whence we receive nothing hurtful. But “high thing” is not so much “height” as something made high, and belongs to those regions of air where the powers of darkness ::exalt themselves” against Christ and us ( Eph 2:2 6:12 2Th 2:4 ).
exalteth itself– 2Th 2:4 supports English Version rather than the translation of ELLICOTT, &c., “is lifted up.” Such were the high towers of Judaic self-righteousness, philosophic speculations, and rhetorical sophistries, the “knowledge” so much prized by many (opposed to “the knowledge of God”), which endangered a section of the Corinthian Church.
against the knowledge of God–True knowledge makes men humble. Where there is exaltation of self, there knowledge of God is wanting [BENGEL]. Arrange the words following thus: “Bringing every thought (that is, intent of the mind or will) into captivity to the obedience of Christ,” that is, to obey Christ. The three steps of the apostle’s spiritual warfare are: (1) It demolishes what is opposed to Christ; (2) It leads captive; (3) It brings into obedience to Christ ( Rom 1:5 16:26 ). The “reasonings” (English Version, “imaginations”) are utterly “cast down.” The “mental intents” (English Version, “thoughts”) are taken willing captives, and tender the voluntary obedience of faith to Christ the Conqueror.
June 2, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Kim
Actually, right off the bat “raising your self-esteem by drawing closer to God,” rings the red bells…..
The closer I get to God….the more I sense my sin and need to humble myself…..
Who will inherit the kingdom of God? the meek, the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the merciful, peacemakers, the persecuted. Those who hunger for righteousness… (The Beattitudes in Matthew)
What are signs that one is fillled with the Holy Spirit? love peace, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. (Fruits of the spirit in Galatians)
I can’t find any passage about raising self-esteem….only lowering it and raising God up.
I did like your article
http://www.examiner.com/x-44482-LA-Christian-Therapy-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Focusing-on-yourself-Emotionally-healthy-or-unChristian
and also liked your recommendation about the David Guzik commentaries. Not so sure about the Saddleback Bible Studies author, as this church is known for its ecumenism, syncretism, watered-down gospel, unbiblical stance on homosexuality, emphasis on works….