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Perry Stone Embraces Necromancy which the Bible forbids….Why would God forbid it? Men are so easily deceived.

Here is a written transcript of the conversation.


Perry Stone:
What happened when you were called to preach, now? I want to go to that.

Fred Stone:
When I was there, this little cabin, Perry, that me and my dad had built. Dad had helped me in West Virginia, up in a lease area, out in Creek Cold company. And I was up there praying and seeking the face of God. And Al Collins, while I was praying, I heard footsteps; it was in the fall and there was leaves about four, five, six inches high. And I heard two or three steps behind the cabin—I’m sitting just like I am now. And I turned and looked around and bent my head like this, and before I could see anybody, a hand reached through—the right hand of a man—reached through the side of the cabin and touched me on the head. I thought it was an angel of the Lord; but actually, the spirit man of Al Collins had touched me, you know what I mean? And spoke to me about what God wanted me to know, and that the Lord wanted me to know this and that and the other. And, of course, I was so overcome by the Spirit that it probably took me an hour after this experience for it to just kind of wear off.

You know, Perry, supernatural experiences with God usually stay with people forever. They stay with you all your life. Now, they’re not as fresh, and they’re not as great upon your spirit man as they were for the first two or three years or something; but they’ll be there forever.

Perry Stone:
I remember when you told me—I mean, I’ve heard you tell that, actually, for years about how that you actually, when that hand touched you, you collapsed and thought you had a heart attack and came out of your body. Paul talked about in 2 Corinthians 12, “…whether in the body or out of the body, I cannot tell, God knows, such a one was caught up into the third heaven…” And so, there are experiences where it’s either a vision, or it actually is happening. And you went out, like, being sucked out into the universe somewhere, where you ended up, where it was a beautiful sapphire blue, and you described what happened there. You said that you saw a ball of light that looked like the size of a silver dollar, is that right? And Al stepped out of that, and pointed his finger at you, right?

It was moving, Perry, it was so far in the universe I couldn’t estimate how far it was. And it was moving with the speed of a, it was like a lightning bolt. It was coming toward me so fast. But when it got from the size of my fist to the size of a person, but it was a ball of fire—a ball of light would be better, light and fire. And when it got so far from me, it just stopped moving, and the light just vanished and there stood Al Collins.

And this is the friend that had passed away?

Yeah, that’s correct.

You’re out in the universe somewhere, though? I mean, way out, on the edge of eternity…

And when he put his right hand out toward me, God let him speak to me.

And he said what?

And he didn’t waste any time, Perry. See, I wanted to ask him questions. What it was like, Al, what was it like to die? What was this and that? That’s what was on my mind, because we were these good friends. But I wasn’t permitted to do that. He looked me and put his hand out and he said, “Fred, God has sent me, God has sent me to tell you…” Excuse me, Perry. “…God has sent me to tell you that you’re called to preach. He’s called you to preach. And you must preach, you must go and you must preach and you must obey me.” And when he said that, the power of God came on me, Perry, and I couldn’t answer him. I couldn’t do nothing, I just trembled. I just shook under the power of God.

And then, but you came back to yourself in that cabin.

And one time he started to leave, and then something stopped him, and he told me he wasn’t finished. And he turned around and said it the second time, said the same thing.


That let me know it was Al Collins. It was no spirit. It was the soul of Al Collins.

Now, you had an experience, too, where you went, you saw into Heaven, and you saw books in Heaven, and that actually had photographs in them, or what looked like photographs, of the ministry of Jesus. Do you remember, can you remember that? So tell what happened though, that’s what’s interesting.

Perry, I walked into this, I was praying and just carried out in the spirit, and I walked in…

Now explain that for people that don’t understand. When you say, “carried out,” what happens?

Well, the Holy Ghost just come on me so great, the Spirit of God moves on you so great, that He can do what He wants to do. He can show you anything He wants to show you. So while in the spirit man, I was on my knees in prayer, but in the spirit, my inner man walked into this great library.

Literally, you saw this?

Yeah, into this great library. And, Perry, it had books the size, the width of them was about like this, they were about this high.

Was it about three, three and a half, three feet, maybe? Three feet?

Yeah, three feet, they were. And one of them was called, “The Mighty Acts and Words of Jesus.” And then there was another book there about Jesus, but I felt led to look at “The Mighty Acts and Words of Jesus.” So I pulled it out, laid it in this table, it was a table with just, the most beautiful glistening white cover. And I laid it down, and when I opened the book, on the page it said, I opened the title page and it said, “The Mighty Acts and Words of Jesus.” And I thought, “Well, I’ve never seen that book.” So I started opening it up, and as I did, there was great pages of His preaching.

So, you could read it, and see it?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So, what do you think it was, Dad? Do you think it was the Holy Spirit, while Jesus was on earth, actually captured, somehow, for people to see one day, everything that He did?

Well, you know, look what John said, he said, “There are many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself…” John 21.

Wow. Right. So what did you see?

Oh, it was like, the Sermon on the Mount; instead of just Matthew 5, 6, 7, it was other preaching that He did, that was with that.

Wow. Now, in other words, when the Bible says, “Every word man gives an account of on that day,” He literally has words, apparently, in books or something…

So the Holy Ghost put in the Bible what He wanted us to actually see and read of the words of Jesus. But Perry, there are, there could be millions of words of Christ and sermons of His. Just like with yourself, there’s been times when you’d start preaching in your meetings, that I would marvel because I knew what you were saying was not all notes. You weren’t quoting from notes. And I believe, Perry, that that’s where alot of preachers get so inspired today, that God just pulls some of the preaching of Jesus that’s not in the books of the New Testament and just puts it in their mouth, and they preach it, and people are saying, “Where in the world did that come from? I never heard that before.”

The Dangers of Divination
by Bob DeWaay

“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations.  There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead” (Deuteronomy 18:9-11).

One of the claims I often hear from those who use techniques to gain spiritual information is this: “Methods are neutral.” Another statement often made by the purveyors of new techniques for “hearing from God” is: “God cannot be limited, He can use anything.” My intent is to show from Scripture that the first of these statements is false and the second is misleading.

The Bible forbids certain methods for contacting the spirit world.  The passage cited above lists several.  This is not an exhaustive list because methods for contacting the spirit world are limitless.  The term “divination” is a general term that covers any such method.  Old Testament scholar Eugene H. Meff ill comments on this: “The phrase ‘practicers of divination’ refers generally to the whole complex of means of gaining insight from the gods regardless of any particular technique.”‘

The reason for the existence of divination is the fact that the spirit world is hidden from our eyes and information about it cannot be gained by normal means of learning.  The various cultures that the ancient Israelites contacted all had means of divination.  They believed that their fate and well being was in the hands of gods whose intentions were mysterious.  A good diviner, like Balaam (see Numbers 23), was adept at interpreting signs and omens. His desire was not only to learn the future, but to influence the present.  Thus Balaam was hired to curse Israel.  Diviners hope to break curses and forestall bad fate.

Why God forbids Divination

God spoke authoritatively to his chosen people through Moses.  What Moses wrote was God’s revealed will.  It was the only access they had to true information about their relationship to things hidden from normal means of learning (general revelation).  Moses wrote: “The secret things belong to the Lord our God but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law(Deuteronomy 29:29).  The word “occult” means secret or hidden knowledge.  Divination is any practice not specifically ordained in scripture that seeks to gain secret knowledge (i.e. spiritual knowledge God has not revealed).  God purposely limits His people’s access to such spiritual knowledge for their own good.  That which is outside of “the things revealed” is not for us.  Why?  Because there are spirit beings out there who have been practicing the art of deception for many thousands of years.  They are good at what they do.  If we dabble in their world we will be deceived.

In the same section of Scripture that forbids divination, we find this promise: “For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.  The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yot4 from your countrymen you shall listen to him” (Deuteronomy 18:14,15).  The “prophet’ who God was to raise up was none other than Jesus Christ (see Luke 9:35; John 5:45-47; Hebrews 1:1,2).The true prophets that came after Moses were not law-givers.  They exhorted Israel to be faithful to the Law and they predicted the future.  They did not add to the Law of Moses.  As further protection against deception, Moses declared that the prophets had to be one hundred percent accurate or they were to be dismissed as false (Deuteronomy 18-22). Also, if they made true predictions but led the people away from God they were false (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).  The next authoritative law-giver was Jesus Christ.

By limiting both the methods and the persons that were available to Ms people, God was protecting them from deceiving spirits.  Every pagan culture has had its methods of divination.  Balak would not have been willing to pay Balaam richly if Balaam had not been good at what he did.  The evil spirits that Satan uses to deceive people make these practices work.  The reason that divination is so prevalent is that it works.

Divination in the Church Today

The teachings of Jesus Christ are contained in the New Testament and constitute the further divine revelation that Moses promised when that new “Prophet” came.  These writings are authoritative and combined with the Old Testament constitute “the revealed things” (Deuteronomy 29:29) that belong to us.  This is the limit of authoritative, divine revelation.  Prophecy in the New Testament is not adding to authoritative revelation, but exhorting from it and applying it.  Just as the Old Testament prophets (except Moses) were not law­givers but law-appliers, so are the “prophesying ones’ in the New Testament.  The other function of Old Testament prophets was to inerrantly predict the future of Israel and her Messiah.  Since the One to whom the prophets pointed has come and spoken in full and final revelation, that role no longer exists.  All the prophecies about the future that we are allowed are already contained in the Bible.

Using prophetic techniques to learn secret information or the future is divination.  Today it is like it was in Jeremiah’s day: “Then the Lord said to me, ‘The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name.  I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divinations, futility and the deception of their own minds” (Jeremiah 14:14). 

For example, the “prophet” Rick Joyner went into a trance, visited heaven, and talked to the apostle Paul.  Here is what the departed “Paul” told Joyner: “If what I have written is used as a foundation, it will not be able to hold the weight of that which needs to be built on it … You must see my teachings through the Lord’s teachings, not try to understand Him from my perspective.” (Joyner, The Final Quest, 133).  Necromancy (communicating with the dead) is a technique for gaining secret information that is forbidden.  When forbidden techniques are used, deception is gained. 

 The information from Joyner’s “Paul” is contradictory to the New Testament where Paul claims that his writings are foundational and authoritative. I do not deny that various practices from guided imagery, to EMDR (a technique used by some practitioners of “Theophostic Ministry” to help people find hidden memories and gain personal revelations from God), to contemplative prayer (which uses techniques to silence the mind in the hope of hearing God’s voice), and many others “work.” They do. I deny that they are from God.  God has chosen the valid means by which we can hear from Him.  Those means are revealed in the Bible.  Going outside of God’s ordained means is rebellion which constitutes divination.  Samuel told Saul: “For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is an iniquity and idolatry.  Because you have rejected the word of the Lord He has also rejected you from being king” (I Samuel 15:23)

Using divination puts one in the realm of deceptive spirits.  Paul predicted: “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons ” (I Timothy 4: 1).


I said at the beginning of this article that methods are not neutral.  That much has been proved by the fact that the Bible forbids divination, a practice which involves innumerable possible methods.  The other claim that “God can use anything,” is misleading.  That God could use something if He chose to does not mean that He will.  It also does not mean that if He does use something it is a good thing.  For example, God used Balaam to prophesy of Messiah, yet Balaam is condemned through Scriptures as a wicked person who led Israel astray (see Numbers 24:17 for Messianic prophesy; Balaam is condemned – 2 Peter 2:15; Jude I 1; Revelation 2:14).  Balaam was a practitioner of divination, hired to curse Israel yet God chose to sovereignly use him to bless Israel instead.  God may indeed use things He condemns, but that does not exonerate those who are thus used.

Today divination is rampant in the church.  It is just as poisonous to the faith today as divination was to Israel’s faith in the Old Testament.  It is rebellion in that it involves refusing to stay within the boundaries God has set for our own good.  Those who are thus deceived have put themselves into that horrible state because they did not receive the love of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12). The truth is the gospel of Jesus Christ.  We need to purge divination from the church and replace it with Gospel preaching and Bible teaching.

Bob De Waay is the pastor of: Twin City Fellowship P.O. Box 8060 Minneapolis, MN 55408 Phone: 612-874-7484 Pastor DeWaay produces a newsletter called: “Critical Issues Commentary.” You can subscribe to this newsletter by contacting Twin City Fellowship; previous issues are archived on the Twin City Fellowship website listed above.

June 2023



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