*update* 1/2013
Now I see that the December Newsletter has recommended a book by Kenneth Boa, a known contemplative…
*update* 10/2012
I was hoping that BSF would remove Tim Kellers book about marriage from their recommended reading section. I have not read the book, only the reviews, but there are valid new-age concerns about the author in general. I was able to locate this information in about 5 minutes of research. Could not those at BSF who are recommending authors do the same to protect the flock? I will continue to pray that the lessons and leaders maintain the wonderful and biblical teachings that I had enjoyed in the past.
Please read:
http://firstjohnfourfive.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/tim-kellers-dangerous-leanings/
http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2010/09/does-tim-keller-endorse-new-age.html
****
Many of you know that I have endorsed BSF as a great Bible Study. I have attended for 7 years and have taught in the children’s program for three of the last years.
I stepped out of leadership this year for two reasons.
Reason #1 – I wanted to serve more faithfully in my church. I felt as though I had received great training from BSF but I felt absolutely no hesitation to pull out this year. The time was right.
Reason #2 – The BSF retreat in Portland was very interesting but when the dust settled I knew something was terribly wrong. Red flags had popped out during the first talk given by new executive director, Susie Rowan. Change was predicted and this is not bad in itself, because BSF is rather strict and holds its copyrighted lesson material, very close. As leaders we are able to wear slacks this year and this was nice, but this is what bothered me most. Ms. Rowan stood on stage and told us a story. A group of people from a Kansas City church had surrounded her to give her a blessing. They all laid hands on her and prayed in tongues over her. This is not biblical. I am pretty much a soft-cessationist who believes God will still distribute spiritual gifts as He pleases, but the Bible teaches that one person speaks and the other interprets. So she was endorsing a form of charisma chaos. I wondered what was going to happen to the conservative teachings of BSF?
On the last day of our leaders meeting for the year, my fears were realized. We received a magazine with recommended books to read during the break. On the list was a book by Dallas Willard, a known contemplative/emergent. Also a verse was given from the apostate paraphrase of the Bible, “The Message.”
I may attend the new study of Isaiah which will start in September just to see how the lessons are put together.
I pray that you will find truth in God’s Word and use a good translation of the Bible. The KJV is always safe but there are other good versions. I no longer can recommend BSF until there is a retraction of the recommended book by Dallas Willard, until “The Message” is dropped as the Word of God. There are good people still in this organization. I pray that their voices will be heard as witnesses to the light and truth.
Please read the comments from other BSF attendees and leaders in this article from Lighthouse Trails Research.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=4776
From David Cloud
DALLAS WILLARD is confused about salvation itself. He said, “Why is it that we look upon salvation as a moment that began our religious life instead of the daily life we receive from God?” (The Spirit of the Disciplines). He believes that it is possible for someone in a pagan religion to be saved without personal faith in Christ Cutting Edge magazine, winter 2001, http://www.dwillard.org/articles/artview.asp?artID=14).
More info on Willard
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue91.htm
http://apprising.org/2008/08/12/delusions-of-dallas-willard/
(And BSF is recommending his books?)
DiscernIt 
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February 18, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Mr. T
(For some reason, I’m not seeing these new posts when I hit my refresh button, so I feel like I’m in a time-warp. Forgive the out-of-sequence posting.)
Donna – no offense taken (life’s too short).
Do note that my emphasis in my exasperation is on *me* and *my* feelings regarding BSF, our LL, etc 🙂 … ‘cuz, being a modern guy, I’m all into me and my feelings, right (sorry – it’s a long day and I’m a little daffy, so ahhh.. how’s it go? “I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!”)
Overall, I want to point out that my grief is how BSF hits *my* standard/preference, not how they hit God’s standard. God’s standard is holy perfection, and BSF is a loooong way from that.
As am I, mind you!
> How sir could I have come up with a different conclusion?
(psst… by noticing that a) these issues are not heretical, and b) my comments were mostly self-directed relative to my preference, not Biblical mandates)
Unfortunately, I’m a stickler for Biblical details, and trust me, I do that everywhere I go because I nerd out on silly details. (This should NOT be construed as any claim to be perfect or superior, mind you!!!) By the same token, you would not want me reviewing your doctrinal material because I’d edit your nuances to death (providing all the necessary verses, of course) and make you want to shoot me. It’s not because I have a superior Bible background, it’s because I’m a nerd about this stuff. (it’s a double-edged sword; trust me) BTW, if you want my opinion on anything Biblical, I’m not opposed to reviewing anything you’d care to pass my way. Bear in mind that my opinion may be worth what you’re paying for it. 🙂
If the material you were using and the LLs and DLs you were under were enough to drive you away, I have no problem with that. Every Bible study can’t please everyone, and I know my own teaching style drives some people batty too. I’m not offended, nor do I look down at people for spurning me. (heck, even the apostles quibbled with followers and went their separate ways – and resolved some of their differences. We should expect no less, as Paul tell us that divisions *must* arise among us: 1 Cor 11). As long as we’re quibbling over nuances and minor shortcomings, we’re all still on the same team. No worries.
What we do need to do is separate nerdy nuances from minor errors, or worse, from “damnable heresies” (a-la 1 John 5:16-17). This too, is discernment, so yes, “bad is bad and wrong is wrong, end of story” is an oversimplification that I don’t think holds up to Biblical scrutiny.
Let’s try applying that standard to working on the Sabbath.
Exod 20:8-11; Exod 31:13-14, Lev 19:3; Lev 23:3, Numbers 15:32-36, etc all say that the Sabbath is to be kept holy and that profaning it comes with a God-endorsed death penalty (see the Numbers passage, where a kid was executed by God’s command for collecting firewood on the Sabbath). …yet in Matt 12, Jesus acts a if the Pharisees *should have known all along* that it was ok for His disciples to work on the Sabbath. Care to explain that in terms of “bad is bad and wrong is wrong, end of story”? I asked a half-dozen preachers and even a couple of seminary profs, and they all gave loopy, circular answers based on the judgmental nature of the Pharisees (which tells me that they didn’t understand the dilemma. Egads!) So let’s all examine this: how would *you* (anyone reading this post) answer the question: How would *you* know that it was ok for the Disciples to work on the Sabbath when God prohibited it (exod), made it a capital offense (lev), and executed a person for violating it (num)?
(The answer is actually pretty cool!)
Anywho…
All of that to say that we need to be very careful when we call something bad – or good. And oversimplifications can get us into every bit as much trouble as misinterpretations can.
I haven’t seen any “damnable heresies” in BSF’s material. I’ve seen a lot that give me grief – but the Word of God is still being lifted up by BSF, and we can’t lose sight of that (unless we’re content to ignore Phil 1:18). They’re not perfect; I’m not perfect – life goes on. But they are one of the good guys. Let’s influence them if we can, if we can’t, let’s move on and find more suitable pastures to graze in.
That’s not a problem, and it’s not unbiblical. Neither is it an endorsement or glossing over supporting Shack Shepherds or teaching emergent tom foolery (both of which truly are heretical distortions of God’s Word and should not be tolerated).
It’s an unfortunate acknowledgment that we will not be perfect until glory, yet we must press ever onward and upward.
(but if I am being unbiblical, by all means, please correct me [preferably with verses 😉 ] )
February 18, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Kim
@Kathy
about your comment
“I have since discovered Precept Ministries. It is learning God’s word, verse by verse and we are currently in a 2-year study of Revelation .”
I just googled this site and found that there is a study group about 1 mile from where i live and work. I know the leader and the church he attends which is very biblical….Thank you for the resource…but I don’t know anything about Kay Arthur…
February 18, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Susan
Kim –
Kay Arthur is great. She was one of the pioneers in Women’s Bible Study!
Enjoy!
February 18, 2011 at 8:50 pm
Kim
Yes, the leader has already answered my email about the Monday night group. I can not attend this Monday night but maybe the next!!
Not sure I want to attend a group right now so I am conflicted. Already help with Bible Study at my church and teach Sunday school.
February 18, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Mr. T
Kim – give it a whirl.
Despite my comments here, I like it quite a lot (far more than I dislike it), and still recommend it heartily. (I’ve given a lot of ink to the things I don’t like and have not given equal time to the things I do like, so my comments here so far do not represent the totality of my thoughts regarding BSF)
I’ve heard good things about Precepts.
As with anything that touches Truth, handle with caution and test all things against the light of the Scriptures. You’ll do fine, and the Holy Spirit will guide you well and teach you all things.
As you would with a church, don’t jump into a Bible study just because of the label. The people involved at the local study/church will impact the quality of the study/church more than the label on the outside of the study/church.
February 18, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Kim
Mr. T,
Thank you for your input. Yes indeed, test all things against the Word… I pray and go where the Lord leads me. I hunger for His Word and truth that is why I despair when I see and hear compromise in the church.
February 18, 2011 at 10:59 pm
Mr. T
Beth – thank you for your word of encouragement and direction. I’ll take a look at my pride and see what I come up with. Goodness knows I’ve got more of it in my heart than I dare imagine (and I bet my wife could give you stories). When I re-read some of the stuff I wrote here… land sakes! I think you may be on to something!
In the mean time… Please don’t think that I think my alarm over questionable interpretation/application (my main beef here) is anything special. I certainly don’t. Ok, I happened to have studied a bit here and there, but so what? That doesn’t make me special, and I’ve no interest in putting any credentials on my name. The issue to me isn’t whether my knowledge is so far above anyone else’s, but rather, why do so many people settle for “explanations” that don’t answer the question? This really irks me when someone tries to answer my questions with babble. Argh!
This is not a work of genius: All I do is put myself in the context of a passage, pay attention and ask questions when something stands out. Next thing I know, I’m asking “strange” questions, and getting strange looks from people. Some might call it discernment; other call it “Berean”; I just call it kicking tires and asking why stuff rattles.
Here are a couple of examples:
– When Jesus says “if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins’ and someone comes along saying “See! Jesus said those who reject Him will die in their sins” just ask yourself if the summary matches the statement. Re-read it. *It doesn’t*. I don’t care if you’re BSF or the pastor down the street or John McArthur (http://revelation22-20.blogspot.com/p/what-is-gospel.html), that’s NOT what Jesus just said. He didn’t say “if you reject Me”, He said “if you don’t believe”. This isn’t trivial: those are two VERY different groups of people. One has heard and rejected. The other has never even heard. Do a head-count, and you’ll see the latter is a much larger group (billions of people!), and Jesus’ statement properly addresses both groups! But when we misinterpret Him like that (which we often do), we’re ‘forcing’ Him to only talk about the smaller of the two groups. Why do we keep doing this? Billions of souls glossed over like that? I don’t get it.
– When God keeps repeating over and over statements about how He blinds, hardens, deafens people to the truth, and Jesus thanks God for hiding the truth of salvation from the wise, why do we (not just BSF!) keep saying “THEY hardened their hearts” and never bring ourselves to echo the Bible by saying “He hardened their hearts”? And if I mention that this bizarre discrepancy irks me, why should that be a reflection of my pride or intelligence (or lack thereof)? The persistent misinterpretation of the Message should be the issue, not the messenger.
– When God’s people (and God Himself) repeatedly state their hatred for wicked people, sing songs of praise when the wicked see their commeuppance, pray for God to obliterate them, rejoice with singing when He does so … tell me again why the two or three verses that suggest otherwise should immediately override the vast volume of verses that don’t go this way? Every time I ask the question, I get someone preaching Matt 5 at me. But when I point out that Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, Jude (all NT people, mind you, to say nothing of Moses, David, God Himself, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc) didn’t really practice what we preach from Matt 5, I get blank stares, and they usually just repeat the select verses of Matt 5. So which view is more Biblical? Seriously? 5 verses in Matt 5 or the rest of the Bible? Folks – I kid you not – this attitude towards wicked/proud people appears in virtually every single book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation (with the exception of maybe 4 books), yet you can hardly find a preacher anywhere (BSF or otherwise) to give a straight answer why all heaven is rejoicing to see wicked people perish “in violence” (God’s words, not mine). Talk that way these days, and you sound like a dadgum Islamist wacko – yet God and God’s people talked that way in Exodus 15, Lev 26, Deut 28, Deut 32, Judges 5, good heavens – Psalms is overflowing with them! , Matt 11, Rom 12, Rev 18, – heck, even Mary sang that in Luke 1 about the Messiah.
(btw.. do a study of women’s songs in the Bible and tell me what common thread you find. I guarantee you most women would be stunned.)
– If asked “what’s the most important verse in the Bible”, how many Christians will give a verse that focuses on themselves or benefits they get? Shouldn’t the most important verse in the Bible be one that focuses on God? So if I asked God directly to see more of Him and His glory, how would He answer me? I’d think that should be the most important question and answer in the world, right? (I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader to use an electronic Bible to find out God’s 2-part answer to this question .. and then speculate why so few people (BSF included) preach this or explain the ramifications of it. [I actually heard a sermon where the preacher – a seminary professor at a well-respected seminary, mind you – actually skipped 1/2 the verse in his exposition of it. *sigh*])
There are plenty more issues like this.
Why do we keep re-interpreting these verses?
All I can say is that I truly hope that the problem here is one lone crazy proud man who’s too arrogant to see the error of his ways (certainly wouldn’t be the first time). But may I humbly suggest that the alternative is quite scary? I would encourage anyone that cares to investigate these questions and see if what you believe and have been taught squares with what the Bible actually says (not what you would like it to say). (and no, the problem is not BSF).
I think one of the main contributors to this issue is that we’re taught a lot of sanitized Biblical principles as young children, and we grow up unconsciously letting those simplified principles interpret/filter everything else we read in the Bible. This is not good. As we grow in our wisdom and understanding of the Bible, **like BSF teaches**, we need to also grow in our acceptance that what the Bible says is what the Bible means. Otherwise, we end up just like the people Jesus reprimanded, teaching as doctrine the traditions of men.
But back to BSF…
These types of topics don’t come up in BSF (nor do they come up in most churches, especially where exegetical teaching is so out of fashion), so I generally don’t bring them up unless I’m asked directly or if a question touches on it (like this blog 🙂 )
In real life, I’m a nice, cuddly kind of guy, and quite likable, too. Believe it or not, I try not to pontificate in my BSF group, and guys actually ask to have me as their DL (it’s true). ‘Course… maybe it just means they’re weird too ;). And don’t worry – I don’t correct every weird answer that hits the floor (Hey … we’ve got one guy in our group . whew! Let’s just say that practically every time he answers something, I say “Ok, thanks! Anyone else?” Invariably, someone else will offer the right answer.)
I LOVE to see people digging into their Bibles and asking relevant questions and seeing what God would have them know, believe and obey. I LOVE to see people ask “What does this passage say? What does it mean? How in the world do I apply this??”
I LOVE to see people concerned with entire passages, not just snippets of verses.
I COULD NOT CARE LESS who gives the right answer – just so long as we all move forward in our march to become more Christlike (Eph 4). This is my prayer for everyone who touches a Bible. And I happen to think that BSF is a great method for getting your average Joe down that path.
(Hey.. if you think I like my head knowledge, wait till you see my heart knowledge!!)
I’m kidding! lighten up! 😉
I care less about my head knowledge and/or heart knowledge – it’s enough for me to just focus on being obedient in attitude, word and deed every hour of the day. I’m not sure what I said that would make you think I value one over the other, but … )
February 19, 2011 at 5:46 am
Beth
Mr T,
Please look at all you have written. The number of your words speak loudly. Proverbs 10:19, Ecc 5:3, Matt 6:7 (I know the context is prayer, but we all know how the Pharisees loved to hear themselves talk), No one has asked you, including myself, for a dissertation. Yet there you go again! Sadly, you are very likely the ONLY one who will take the time to read your sermon. Why don’t you stop wasting your God-given time and talent and start your own study (and also your own blog)? I could parse your thoughts and argue at length with much of what you have written, but you wouldn’t get it! When you think you know more than Bible scholars like John MacArthur perhaps you owe it to the Lord to serve Him in a greater capacity than just being a puppet in BSF and filling up pages on blogs. I don’t mean to sound nasty, but seriously, I can’t think of any other way to get your attention! Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think so. Lastly, I’d like to thank you for proving the very point that people should steer clear of BSF. People who google BSF will find this blog. Your words and arrogance will make it very clear what BSF could be like. Pride, arrogance, many words, lots of busywork and especially this year, confusion: they all waste precious time for those of us who seek to study God’s Word without the leaven. And yes, the endorsement of the Message and Contemplative authors (the original subject of this blog entry) is leaven. Where in the Bible does it say we should remain where leaven is served?
February 19, 2011 at 8:30 am
EBenz
I’m going to throw my two cents into this conversation, but I’ll try to keep it brief since this comment string has taken on a life of its own! Since my blog is being referenced, though, I feel a need to toss my thoughts into the ring. I will not comment on the use of Hebrews 1 to argue that God’s final revelation was revealed in Jesus Christ and that new, extra-biblical revelation is not something we should today be seeking. I have already addressed that on my blog in response to a comment that I think I can rightly assume was from “Mr. T.”
What I would like to briefly muddle through is this conversation of who rejects Christ and who doesn’t believe, etc. And yes, I will have to muddle! Perhaps my education is lacking, but it seems that the verbosity of some of these posts leaves the reader searching for a clear, concise main point. So forgive me if I am misunderstanding anything.
I’m not entirely sure how the subject originally came up, but it seems that the problem is with those people who say that rejecting Christ means one will die in their sins. And the poster is saying that it is about belief. Forgive me if I am oversimplifying, but if one does not believe in Christ, aren’t they then rejecting Him? Even if one believes Christ lived, but denies His deity, then they are rejecting Him. Even if one has “never heard” of Christ, they are still rejecting Him and the salvation He offers because they live contrary to the law of God which means, then, that they are separated from and rejecting Him!
“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.” Romans 1:19-21. I would quote more, but this comment is already longer than I wanted it to be!
There is no middle ground. One is either for Christ or against Him. Blatant rejection of Him means one will die in his sins. Passive rejection of Him means one will die in his sins. I do not presume to speak for Pastor MacArthur, but I do not think it is fair to take a one paragraph devotion and attribute it as his entire teaching on the matter of the gospel and salvation! For the same reason, we wouldn’t write one paragraph about election and consider the matter closed. I merely included that particular devotion on my blog because I knew that it had helped several people to better articulate the Gospel (people who had spent years in BSF and still could not articulate the Gospel), and so I felt it was important enough to share. Perhaps churches and pastors speak more of those who outright reject Christ after hearing because…well, the people sitting in those pews are obviously that day hearing about Christ, and they need to realize the gravity of what will happen if they continue to reject Him.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that there is a group of people who may be saved because they have “never heard.” As I already quoted, Romans 1 takes quick care of that problem. If one is being drawn by the Holy Spirit, God will make sure that he hears the Truth. But all those who deny Christ, whether doing so after hearing a beautiful Gospel presentation in church, or who do so by ignoring God’s revelation of Himself in creation, are all counted among those who “do not believe.”
As far as BSF is concerned, I think, Mr. T, that your first post offered a marvelous list of some of the concerns that we should all have about this organization. You stated that these are your own issues and that they ultimately have not caused you to leave BSF and, it sounds to me, as though you would even recommend BSF. I admit that I am confused as to why someone would continue to endorse an organization, or even just the local group, if one had such deep concerns as yours. You say your TL wrongly presents some biblical truths–well, would you then recommend a new believer, or any Christian, go and sit under his teaching? To do so is incredibly irresponsible! Would you also send the same Christian to Rob Bell’s church? He may be a bit more flagrant in his false teaching, but I’m sure that he tosses some truth in now and again as well! If you knew that a pumpkin pie contained rat poison, but it was just a few pellets, would you still serve that pumpkin pie? The errors and concerns that you raised about BSF are, I am afraid, rat poison. But perhaps I am once again merely oversimplifying.
February 19, 2011 at 8:53 am
Kim
Thank you Ebenz for clarifying your position. The problem is that you shouldn’t have had to because of off-topic problems in the comments. I love your blog.
Mr. T I have enjoyed your comments but please keep them short and on topic. Many tend to deviate or inject a favorite issue in blog comment sections.
Beth…. but I see no arrogance in the comments and your verse references were indeed out of context.
I do not want to stifle but please keep on topic and respond with kindness. We will be accountable for all our words to each other.
February 19, 2011 at 11:26 am
Lynn
Mr T, this quote from John MacArthur’s Galatians Commentary is why I left BSF after attending nine years. “Christians are to have nothing to do with false teachers, no matter what their credentials. It is both naive and unscriptural to believe, for instance, that staying in a religious school or church that denies the Bible and distorts the gospel gives a believer the opportunity to be a positive influence for the Lord. Even a leader like Timothy, well trained in divine truth, was warned to stay away from error and to concentrate on the pure truth of God (1 Timothy 4:6-7, 13; 2 Timothy 2:15-17). To subject oneself to false teaching, no matter how orthodox one’s own convictions may be, is to disobey God and to compromise and weaken one’s testimony and to tolerate distortion of the grace of God in Christ.” Page 17, last paragraph.
February 19, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Mr. T
Kim – I stand corrected. My apologies to all for the distracting nature of my writing. (actually, I’m kinda surprised you don’t see arrogance. I’m kinda embarrassed at the way I presented myself earlier! I didn’t mean to come off sounding like that, but …egads!)
Beth – Please remember: each BSF group, LL and DL is different. My LL, fellow DLs and myself should not be confused with the whole. (don’t worry – I read everything you wrote, and I am seriously contemplating my pride issues here. I don’t want my arrogance (perceived or real) to distract from larger issues).
February 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Mr. T
BTW, Beth, I’d be glad to tell you what other non-puppet-BSF things that I do, but you have to first promise you won’t consider me arrogant for listing them 🙂 And if you’re really interested in seeking God’s Word without the leaven, all kidding aside, I’d be very interested in your feedback on some of the “common re-interpretations” I’ve posted. Those are definitely leaven issues in my book, and I’m honestly dying for someone to show me verses that will help me see that I’m making a mountain out of a molehill. This burden is driving me bonkers!
EBenz – John McArthur is near the top of my faves. His grasp on soterierology (and pretty much anything else in the Bible) can clean my clock any day of the week. My intention isn’t to attack him, but to show that this particular unfortunate mis-summarization (imho) of Jesus’ statement in Jn 8 is extremely common, and unwittingly causes confusion. (BSF does it a lot, including on their SoF, hence the tie-in to this blog).
> Even if one has “never heard” of Christ, they are still rejecting Him and the salvation He offers because they live contrary to the law of God which means, then, that they are separated from and rejecting Him!
> There is no middle ground. One is either for Christ or against Him.
As long as we all understand your black/white analysis (one which I *wholeheartely* believe in, btw), then I have no problem here!
Unfortunately, we preach to a very post-modern-influenced audience. Worse, they think that God is motivated by their own definition of love and not God’s definition of holiness. That’s why we keep seeing people say “But what about the savage in the deepest darkest jungle of africa who has never heard of Jesus? That’s not fair!!” or worse – Christians who say “Oh.. ummm… God knows their hearts”. EGADS!
> well, would you then recommend a new believer, or any Christian, go and sit under his teaching? To do so is incredibly irresponsible!
Honestly, you may be right. I’ll have to reconsider my position.
(BTW, when I talk about the ‘Biblical truths’ that my LL muddies, I’m not talking about ‘Biblical essential truths’, Apostles Creed or anything that anyone would consider heretical, but generalizations that, taken to their natural conclusions, paint a larger picture of the Bible that doesn’t fit the revealed Word. Most people would gloss over it, but every now and then someone will ask…)
Lynn – I affirm that position, and am saddened that most churches don’t share the Bible’s zeal to warn the Body about the dangers of false teaching. I suspect you and I might have a different definition of ‘false teacher’. I think Paul had the 2 Peter 2 kind of false teacher in mind. IMHO, BSF doesn’t rise to that level.
March 23, 2011 at 1:49 pm
bsf in tx
I have been active in bsf since 1996, in two countries and serving as leader in several roles. i have learned the word of god through bsf lessons from 9 teaching leaders during that time(maybe ten, but i am hurrying as i type).
bsf is unique in its ministry. it’s not even possible to compare the study to a kay arthur or other women’s study. this is a place where one can learn and be taught the scriptures in many parts of the world. in my job and in my travels, i have visited several classes. constantly, the focus is on the lord jesus christ and his transforming power. if it’s not a place for you, don’t go there. find another place to learn the word. the factthat there is a disclaimer on the book list which indicates “bsf does not necessarily agreee with all the content of the books in the book list” should be accepted. the books are written by men, not god. and bsf is not god either. they seek to exalt the word of god and should be supported in their faith-efforts to do so.
to suggest that people are not discerning in their reading is a little controlling.
while i don’t agree with everything bsf as an organization decides, i trust, like my pastor and elders, that god is using them and guiding them in faith to develop their character.
let’s not major on the minors. bsf has been an amazing place to me over the years as i have observed dozens of women interact with one another in service to the lord. the very fact that all these women can get along is testament to the transforming power of the holy spirit. i don’t know what to say about the speaking of tongues over the director. it concerns me to hear this, of course. having been overseas and shared the gospel in a foreign language, i understand the biblical way of tongues use in our day. there is tongue use, as the gospel is preaching in other lands. but there is a translator and souls are indeed saved. in fact, if you are saved and your native language is english, tongues were used so you could be saved. to say it is dead is a bit extreme. but if suzie rowan had an interpreter in the service, and the words spoken were a known language, then it was totally biblical.
anyway, be kind while you are discerning. the world is watching and hoping that christ andhis followers really do have something different. let’s not pick fights while they are perishing. blessings
March 23, 2011 at 1:54 pm
bsf in tx
ps. i was baptized and married in mac arthur’s church. my former pastor would also encourage us to discern with love as we interact with others.
March 23, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Kim
My teaching leader was great. She uses commentaries from Boice for most of her lectures and she has never been off the mark. But as you can read from some of the comments, some of the leaders are saying Yoga is ok. It is not. Dallas Willard is not. He is a contemplative who could easily lead others to the heresy of Foster or Henri Nouwen. If this does not alarm you it should.
I love John MacArthur, but if he ever suggested reading a heretical book I would have to take issue with him also.
Of course there is still the issue of “The Message” which is a paraphrase and not a bible written by Eugene Peterson. He wrote a forward to “The Shack”. Another heretical book advocating universalism for just starters.
I think it wiser to share information and be bereans and examine all teachings to make sure they line up with scripture.
February 14, 2013 at 10:56 am
Greta Wallace
I am very sad, to read this post. I have been commuting sometimes 6 hours round trip for my BSF classes for 8 years~ Between Chicago and Dubuque, and then I commuted from Madison, Davenport, Moline and Cedar Rapids from Dubuque Iowa! God has worked wonders on my heart, when I had no place to go for bible study and my mother had had a stroke, so I had to commute from her home for the classes. We have started a BSF prayer group in Dubuque, Iowa and we hope that God has a plan for this much needed BSF in our community, even though it will be a great effort on our parts, with a small population. It is always a sad day when people begin to nit pick, focusing on human differences and interpretations. There will ALWAYS be differences, even among christians, churches and bible studies….We are sinful. We are not perfect. Yet, God expects we sinners to be His witnesses spreading knowledge of the bible. He is no fool. He knows what He is doing and He has a perfect plan in ALL of it. This study is as close to perfect as I have experienced in any bible study I have attended, such as Beth Moore, etc. God will work out all things for the GOOD~ but I would not want to be that someone who is responsible for beginning a rumor that ends a solid bible study. Satan loves to see people fall away and become divided!!! Pride, judgement and legalism are not Godly, in ANY case. God knows our hearts and He certainly is aware of our bickering and differences. I would encourage you to erase this post and support any bible study that is changing hearts and bringing people closer to God by studying His bible….BSF does not favor reading commentaries, etc. because they believe God talks to each of us personally. They do not promote any particular church, charismatic or not. But they DO embrace ANYONE who wants to learn the bible, which means you may be studying side by side with a Jewish woman or a nun or a non believer. The beauty of God’s word is that it IS universal!
Greta Wallace Glab
February 14, 2013 at 6:36 pm
Kim
I am glad that you are finding good teachings at BSF…but I am sorry that I cannot endorse the books that were suggested reading. I am a Christian researcher and am familiar with new-age writers and techniques. Beth Moore is also an issue. Do you believe in extra-biblical revelation?
You might want to take a look a few of these links. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/emergingchurch.html#bmoore
We are told many times in the New Testament that there will be many false teachers. No one is above examination.
February 15, 2013 at 8:23 am
Kim
I took a look at the last BSF newsletter Dec 2102 with the recommended reading list. Again I was dismayed to see an author named Kenneth Boa. I read the first pages of his book Face to Face and found the prayers encouraging. But as I went through his website I saw references to Henri Nouwen. Also he links to Gary Thomas and this is a no-no.
https://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/warning-gary-thomas-and-sacred-marriage-being-promoted-in-churches/
February 15, 2013 at 8:48 am
Kim
Greta…
I understand where you are coming from. You love BSF… I did too. I was there for 10 years and taught in the Children’s program. It trained me to teach children in my own church. God used it greatly in my life…but at the same time there are some problems…It does no one any good to turn a blind eye. I care about you and others enough to warn about the spiritual formation, the spiritual contemplatives that may be introduced through these books. Many of these contemplatives are mystics which will lead down a wrong path.
We must continue to test and examine all things. The judgement passage in Matthew 7 is about being a hypocrite in judgment. The Christian must make all kinds of determinations. Later in the passage we are told to test the fruit, not to give pearls to swine. Paul said the Bereans were noble for testing everything he said. Legalism is falling back on the OT laws, or Judaizers. which doesn’t apply here.
I wish you blessings in the Lord.
September 8, 2013 at 6:56 am
Jeff
I’m relieved that your #1 reason for getting out of BSF is the same as my reason for not approving of my wife to rejoin BSF. I strongly believe in Family Integrated Churches and believe that a proper Bible Study is found only in the home and only in the church to which a family has covenanted.
People are not embracing the church and the Church. If we feel we have to get “spiritual enrichment” outside the covenanting body then we either have to be a Pilgrim or a Puritan. But stop playing the in-between field. Let your yes be yes and your no be no.
September 8, 2013 at 8:47 am
Kim
Actually I have no problem with a Bible study located outside of the home or church. I also belong to another Bible study in our neighborhood.
September 9, 2013 at 9:19 am
Tim
I must admit I have growing concerns over the latest fad of Family Integrated Churches.
They do many great things, playing a key role in God’s work to “turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers” (Mal 4). We need more God-fearing, Bible-obeying churches like this, to turn back the godless tide of this generation and re-establish the proper role of the father in the home/society as he develops his God-assigned domain. Our generation would have us be “godless Esaus”, as clueless as Disney fathers, serving as the butt of all jokes, unable to manage our families, unprepared to build up our wives and subdue/replentish the earth God gave us.
But to say that the only place for Bible study is the home and a covenanted church – where is this in the Bible?
Nowhere.
While well-intended, this is man’s opinion, not the Word of God. Left unchecked, it will sprout another generation of an off-kilter cult, teaching as doctrines the traditions of men.
November 29, 2016 at 8:54 pm
Whitley
As a Leader in the BSF study in Austin I am finding the classes begin with criticisms and passive aggressive attacking. The leader (Marla)appears to target certain Women and instead of loving on them she embarrasses many of the Women during the Leaders study. This is not of God. Public humiliation is not a leadership trait. Most Christian leaders would address any concerns with a specific individual. I thought the goal was to develop leaders not humiliate them?
November 30, 2016 at 7:46 am
Kim
Hi Whitley, I am not sure I understand your comment. You are a discussion leader right? And Marla is the Teaching leader?
It sounds as though correction is taking place during the Saturday meeting for the leaders? If so this is how I take it. If someone mentions a false or questionable teaching during the meeting then the correction is in order.
Anyone teaching is held to a higher standard. Although if I remember correctly discussion leaders do not teach at all they only facilitate the discussion. But they do hold some authority even though not intended.
If one mentions a false teaching in a leaders meeting then I agree that it needs to be addressed publically. It really is for the benefit of all who want to be in truth.
Of course how one says things is important. Correction should happen in love because we want truth above all.
Also have to remember that the Mathew 18 passage is often misused. We are to first go privately to someone who sins against us then we can take it to the church. But this is different from addressing false teachings.
January 24, 2018 at 5:31 am
Bev hays
I started noticing a change last year..but really am aware, this year…
A lot of questions are HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS… Which is crazy…how i feel may not be biblical at all…FEELINGS CHANGE BY THE MOMENT…and teachrs us NOTHING ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD….yesterday during group..which my class was guest with another class…this lady spoke of her friend that died…..and said she was not spiritual at all.. but was a good person so KNEW she was in heaven because she was a “good” person……and it was accepted as FACT!!!!!!! I was shocked……i am removing myself from this class….ive read up on THE MESSAGE BIBLE…THAT BSF RECOMMENDS. and they should be ashamed of themselves….my question ARE the main leaders at coorporate born again believers to allow this??
January 24, 2018 at 7:54 am
Kim
Hi Bev, thank you for your comment… I haven’t heard much about BSF lately. The problem with using “How do you feel about this?” in the discussion groups is that the discussion leader is definitely trained NOT to teach during the discussion time. During the Saturday morning training sessions this was really emphasized. This is because the discussion leader may not really be mature enough in the faith to teach or correct…and may give false advise.
Your experience in the class is a perfect example of how this plays out when someone speaks out something very wrong but it is not addressed. You would think a discussion leader could at least speak on the basics of the faith and how someone is saved.
I was fortunate to have very solid women of the faith lead the groups I was part of and were skilled at pointing to us to the scriptures. I do remember one saying that the notes of the lesson would answer someones question. Also there were times when there was an uneasy silence when someone would say something unbiblical and we would look at the discussion leader. Looking back I think that premise was to lead someone to the truth through the lesson and the lecture.
I have since lead Bible studies in my church and see the wisdom of not embarrassing someone who would state their unsaved friend is in heaven when in fact they may be in hell. But….also being able to approach with love and with truth with some verses on how one is saved. That is the difference of facilitating discussion and teaching.
One has to recognize the limitations that BSF has put on the group discussions that inhibit it. I hate to see the road BSF is on and what is coming from the top.
December 24, 2019 at 4:43 am
Jane
I have a friend who has attended BSF for over 25 yrs but recently made a teacher of little ones. Since receiving her “job” I have noticed a change in her personality and it isn’t good. She questions my salvation. She questions what I share with her that I have learned by studying scripture. She tells me I should be praying more for God’s guidance in most every situation (she herself does) She many times says it’s the devil speaking when she doesn’t agree to something I learned or maybe I don’t go along with what she is telling me. BSF has become her number 1 above her family and home church. It really saddens me when I try sharing with her what I discovered by reading the Bible and her rely is “well that’s how you look at it” I have shared with our pastor my discoveries and he is amazed what I have discovered. I have been blessed with the gift of discernment so when I hear of BSF I really wonder should I attend to see for myself if what I have researched and discovered is true or should I stay away from them?
December 28, 2019 at 7:50 am
Kim
Hi Jane,
I loved BSF but came to understand it should not replace a home church. I think BSF had a solid foundation of biblical teaching but now question the new leadership. From past discussions it seems that some pockets of classes still remain true to the Word but the present influences will surely take hold.
I am glad to hear of your gift. I compare it to the Bereans who compared what they heard with the scriptures to see if what they heard was true. A gift from the spirit will remind you of what is written.
I believe the best pattern laid out in scripture is the local church, called the pillar and foundation of truth. 1 Timothy 3:15. The church is to have godly leadership such as elders, to oversee and feed the people truth. The church should also protect people from false teachers who are to abound as time goes by. But….mysticism, social justice, etc are invading the churches and some pastors fear man instead of God and do nothing.
I also hold to an unpopular belief that women may teach other women but that the Bible did not mean that in terms of large Bible studies and sole sources of doctrine. The Bible seems to indicate that women are to teach other women in their homes and family. Male leadership seems to be norm in the church and the home. I do not believe in women pastors and BSF comes close to defying the roles laid out for men and women.
Since I don’t know what you are discovering I can’t say what I think about that.